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  1. the yellow dart is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/11/2007 8:04pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by fatherdog
    Skilled enough to avoid Ricco's takedowns



    Monson also couldn't finish Sylvia, and Monson has beaten Gonzaga in grappling.

    I think you're vastly underestimating Sylvia, especially since Couture has in fact finished excellent grapplers on the ground.

    How the fight will go is gonna depend on whether Randy can outstrike Gonzaga. If he can, he's gonna win pretty easily, because I don't think Gonzaga can take him down. If he can't, then he's going to take Gonzaga down, and it's going to be interesting to see Gonzaga working his superior submission skills against Randy's superior base and GnP.
    Which world class grapplers has Randy beaten? He lost to Ricco, Barnett, Overeem, etc. The only good grappler he's beaten is an undersized Jeremy Horn. On to Monson, his biggest issue in that fight is while Monson is an amazing grappler, he is definitely past his prime and much, much too undersized to fight Sylvia. When your arms cannot reach your opponent's face when in their guard, you have a problem. Monson simply couldn't get past Sylvia's size despite his groundwork. Sylvia is nowhere close to being a good grappler, and simply has the ability to hold off better grapplers.

    Gonzaga is a bit of a question mark standing, but I definitely think that if he can just pressure Randy, he can get Randy to the ground and finish him similar to what Ricco did.

    Edit: I don't think using Ricco as an example of how good Couture is now is a good idea, since they fought in 2001, and Couture has certainly changed quite a bit in the past 6 years, especially considering his brutal losses to Liddell which exposed many of Randy's flaws.
    Last edited by the yellow dart; 8/11/2007 8:07pm at .
  2. Fighting Cephalopod is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/11/2007 9:11pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by the yellow dart
    Which world class grapplers has Randy beaten?
    Vitor is pretty close to being as decorated as Gonzaga in grappling competition.


    On to Monson, his biggest issue in that fight is while Monson is an amazing grappler, he is definitely past his prime
    Monson beat Gonzaga in ADCC only a year before losing to Sylvia.

    Gonzaga is a bit of a question mark standing, but I definitely think that if he can just pressure Randy, he can get Randy to the ground and finish him similar to what Ricco did.
    This is entirely possible. It's also entirely possible that he'll just get outboxed all night.

    Edit: I don't think using Ricco as an example of how good Couture is now is a good idea, since they fought in 2001, and Couture has certainly changed quite a bit in the past 6 years, especially considering his brutal losses to Liddell which exposed many of Randy's flaws.
    What flaws in Randy did his losses to Liddel "expose", other than "His chin isn't made of adamantium"?
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  3. the yellow dart is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/11/2007 10:14pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by fatherdog
    What flaws in Randy did his losses to Liddel "expose", other than "His chin isn't made of adamantium"?
    Mostly Liddell showed how poor Randy's wrestling had become. Randy couldn't take down or keep down Liddell (as I recall) and as a result we found Randy laid out twice in a row. It also showed how one-dimensional Randy is, and how if he can be stifled that Couture does not that the variety of abilities that can carry him to a win multiple ways at that level. He can still probably throw a knockout punch, but not reliably, and his standup is improving but still not enough to make it the trademark that he needs it to be with his deteriorating wrestling.
  4. Fighting Cephalopod is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/11/2007 10:32pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by the yellow dart
    Mostly Liddell showed how poor Randy's wrestling had become.
    yes, how poor it was that he only took down Chuck twice in those two fights that lasted a total of three rounds - It's not like that's more often than ANYONE ELSE EVER HAS TAKEN CHUCK DOWN - oh, wait, it is.

    Randy couldn't take down or keep down Liddell (as I recall) and as a result we found Randy laid out twice in a row.
    This would be totally meaningful if anyone other than Rampage had taken Chuck down and kept him down, ever, but they haven't.

    Also, in Randy vs Chuck 2 and 3 Randy was in the process of going through a messy divorce, so it's not like there were no other factors.

    It also showed how one-dimensional Randy is
    Okay, at this point I'm just going to stop putting forth well-reasoned arguments, because if you're seriously going to call Randy "one-dimensional" you're just retarded and not worth arguing rationally with.
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  5. the yellow dart is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/12/2007 1:08am

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    Quote Originally Posted by fatherdog
    yes, how poor it was that he only took down Chuck twice in those two fights that lasted a total of three rounds - It's not like that's more often than ANYONE ELSE EVER HAS TAKEN CHUCK DOWN - oh, wait, it is.


    This would be totally meaningful if anyone other than Rampage had taken Chuck down and kept him down, ever, but they haven't.

    Also, in Randy vs Chuck 2 and 3 Randy was in the process of going through a messy divorce, so it's not like there were no other factors.
    Took Chuck down twice and did what those last 2 fights? Absolutely nothing. If you can't keep a man down that means nothing outside of getting the decision. It shows how his ability to control on the ground has deteriorated and that Randy doesn't have the skills he used to.

    Okay, at this point I'm just going to stop putting forth well-reasoned arguments, because if you're seriously going to call Randy "one-dimensional" you're just retarded and not worth arguing rationally with.
    Why is that retarded? Randy is a wrestler, who does best on the ground. His boxing is nothing exceptional, with the main purpose of his standup game to get the other guy on the mat. Randy has no KO power, never has had KO power, and will not magically attain KO power any time soon. You're kidding yourself if you're trying to say that Randy is going to knock someone out. Furthermore, being one-dimensional is not necessarily a bad thing, and I don't see why you're so angry about it. Plenty of really good fighters are (see: Liddell, Cro-Cop, Big Nog) and always will be. But the plain fact is that Randy will only win decisions with his standup, and he doesn't have the ability to straight up win only on his feet.
  6. Red512S is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/12/2007 3:28am


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    Randy Couture Vs. Gabriel Gonzaga - too much of a toss-up for me depending on how I look at it
    Roger Huerta Vs. Alberto Crane - Huerta by TKO
    Josh Koscheck Vs. Georges St-Pierre - GSP by TKO, mosy likely 2nd round
    Kurt Pellegrino Vs. Joe Stevenson - Stevenson by submission, round 1
    Patrick Cote Vs. Kendall Grove - not too sure, I'll go with Grove on this one, just because I've been so impressed with his growth overall
    Ryan Jensen Vs. Thales Leites - no idea
    Renato Sobral Vs. David Heath - Sobral by slick submission round 2
    Frank Mir Vs. Antoni Hardonk - another unsure one for me, I'm going with Mir just because I want him to win
    Clay Guida Vs. Marcus Aurelio - no idea

    Dave
  7. Das Moose is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/12/2007 7:34am


     Style: BJJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawarma
    I disagree with your assesment of the Couture/Gonzaga fight. First of all, Couture has brilliant takedown and positioning skills which Gonzaga will quite likely be hard pressed to match. Secondly, Gonzaga has proven little in the UFC against top heavyweights except that he can get lucky against a totally uninspired CroCop. .
    Yeah. He got lucky. Right.

  8. selfcritical is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/12/2007 9:18am


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    Quote Originally Posted by the yellow dart
    I really think you overestimate Randy. Sylvia, while not a can, is certainly not extremely skilled when it comes to things like takedown defense, BJJ, and various other aspects of ground fighting. The fact that Couture could not finish Sylvia, an extremely poor groundfighter (comparatively, of course) in 5 rounds that he more or less dominated speaks volumes about Randy's abilities on the ground. Couture has never had great sub defense, and as an undersized HW I don't think he has what it takes to beat Gonzaga, who is an absolute beast.

    I may also get some flak for this, but I really don't think Randy has the skills to beat Gonzaga. He is a wrestler who utilizes GnP to beat guys, but I really don't think he can manage against someone who is a world-class grappler. You also underestimate the size advantage of Gonzaga. While Sylvia is just big, Gonzaga has almost 30 pounds of sheer muscle to push Randy around with. I don't see Randy winning this fight.
    Sylvia was on the ground with MONSON and didn't get subbed. You may be downplaying Sylvia's sub defense just a tad.
  9. selfcritical is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/12/2007 9:24am


     Style: Pekiti, ARMA, other stuff

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    Quote Originally Posted by Das Moose
    Yeah. He got lucky. Right.

    He didn't get lucky. He had a distinct gameplan, he stuck to it, and capitalized on the dizziness that his GnP had caused. He's not a better striker than Crocop, but he fought intelligently and managed to mitigate that disparity. Just like with Serra/GSP. Sometimes fighters get beaten by people they are better than because the other guy choses the right tactics.
  10. Fighting Cephalopod is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/12/2007 9:40am

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    Quote Originally Posted by the yellow dart
    Why is that retarded? Randy is a wrestler, who does best on the ground. His boxing is nothing exceptional,
    His boxing has been good enough to beat Vitor on the feet, beat Chuck on the feet in the first match, beat Jeremy Horn on the feet, hung with Pedro Rizzo on the feet, and beat Sylvia on the feet.


    Randy has no KO power, never has had KO power, and will not magically attain KO power any time soon.
    So not having KO power makes you one-dimensional, no matter how good your striking is otherwise? Good to know.

    You're kidding yourself if you're trying to say that Randy is going to knock someone out.
    This would be a great point if I had ever said that Randy was going to KO someone, but I haven't, so it's pretty much meaningless words.

    Furthermore, being one-dimensional is not necessarily a bad thing, and I don't see why you're so angry about it.
    I'm not angry; I'm exasperated because you're a retard.

    But the plain fact is that Randy will only win decisions with his standup, and he doesn't have the ability to straight up win only on his feet.
    Randy can and has won fights only on his feet, and the ability to win decisions with your standup means you have good standup, whether you're finishing the fight or not.
    Undisputed KING OF ASSHOLES.
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