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  1. Dr._Tzun_Tzu is offline
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    It's pretty beat up, but it is a complete copy....

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    Posted On:
    3/05/2010 5:39pm

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     Style: EBMAS WT/ Latosa Concepts

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tonuzaba View Post
    OK, in case you really mean it:

    I believe folks around here are talking about -ing -un in a fight looking like -ing -un being taught in -ing -un classes or shown on -ing -un demos.

    Yeah, probably demo-like would be better.

    See, that's where all the sifu's and sihing's defend all "attacks" easily and generously and effectively deal destruction to the "attacker", while describing technical details.

    What do you think? ;-)
    Wait a minute, WT sparring does look just as sloppy as the fighting does.

    The problem is that _ing _Un training is more difficult then what you need in a fight. and Demos are obviously more complex then you will use in an MMA setting, which is where this stuff will have to be visible.

    If the person I am fighting doesn't present the situation you wont see the movements. Sirc for example didn't attack my centerline so I didn't do hardly any centerline stuff, and that is a lot of the WT. Other stuff I did like a "bong sau" at one point, was not seen as a bong sau to the viewer because his punch didn't cross the centerline nor did it push my arm down. So it looked like a left cross instead.

    I guess it would be easier to just change the demos......

    "If anything is gained from this, it should be you both wanting to get better so you can make up for how crappy you are now." KidSpatula about the Sirc vs DTT Gong Sau Event
    Until the Bulltube is fixed:
    DTT vs Sirc

  2. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/05/2010 5:41pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr._Tzun_Tzu View Post
    This subject comes up quite a bit. I think that "WC being successfully used" needs to be defined better. What do people need to see being used? How much stuff from other arts is allowed? What defines something as WC and not just boxing or kickboxing (or more likely bad boxing and bad kick boxing). You are not going to see chi sau in a fight, so what do you want to see?

    I am seriously interested in this as I have tried many different ways to demonstrate this stuff but to no avail. It should be it's own thread,
    No, it doesn't need a thread, it is buried in about 15 threads right now.


    How I missed this I don't know. Anyway the issue has been discussed to death. I have said that I see chun in many things. I have said that I see chun in many things as have many other posters. As has been discussed, multiple times, you must blame the CMAers for the problems they have and create.

    Let's be real here I have been loathe to say anything because, DTT stepped up and fought hard. He gains a ton of respect from me for that alone. Now that you have opened the door I'll walk in. The issue with what you and other chunners do is lack of honesty. This also applies to many CMAers. We created this bullshit. Please make note of the key word.

    I have seen DTT, Cripple35, myself, Cullion, Sifu Rudy and many many many others use this phrase:

    ...but....but...but it doesn't look like kung fu.

    We CMAers created that monster but, we get mad when it is thrown back in our faces. We then (YES you DTT) complain, bitch and moan, edit videos, point out the techniques, and keep the bullshit going. If someone goes through both those threads, there are mutliple posts of you complaining about rules, saying what isn't going to work, and after the fight coming back saying "I didn't use my Chun." Then you start editing videos and say look at all the chun.

    That's the attitude that created this "CMA doesn't look like CMA" monster.

    You are helping to keep the drama going you want to correct. It is funny because, the OP, in this thread, isn't negative. It is telling the wannabe "Kung Fu" fighters what to do. That OP would work for any CMA if people bothered to actually
    READ the OP instead of reacting to a perceived slight to their beliefs.


    I can pull up a hundred threads with CMAers saying fighting looks like fighting. I watch grapplers say hmmm oh that was this move he trains there oh that was Sambo oh that was wrestling. For the most part you rarely here that wasn't grappling. If you do it is form some noobie idiot. We are on the other end of the spectrum. No one pays any attention to those threads. Why? As my parent's say:

    "The squeaky wheel gets the grease." The more crying CMAers do, the more people pay attention to those excuse laden threads.

    This doesn't bother anyone. The problem arises when all people hear is "it was my WT (TM) EBMAS (TM) "Anti-Grapple (TM) that saved the day. That is the real issue. If all CMAers got off their high horse and said "who gives a **** if it looks like sloppy boxing" did <insert opponent> get KO'ed? Then STFU. Yes, it will work.

    How do I know? I watched some gay as wrasslin' fucking take over the world of fighting, combine with other striking arts, and nearly dethrone boxing.

    Anybody above 30 will understand exactly what I'm talking about.

    Now, I know you'll take it personally but, you shouldn't. All CMAers minus Omega Gezere Mike Patterson, Tim Cartmell, Cung Lee, ( there are others but,I'm trying to stop ranting) are guilty of this BS.



    but I am not going to start one as the baggage the name DTT brings along would make for a bad start to it.
    As to this bullshit.....

    When you learn to stop making things about you and yours, many more of your posts will stay.

    Oh and **** a Demo. Dance routines are complicated as well.
  3. Tonuzaba is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/05/2010 5:56pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr._Tzun_Tzu View Post
    ...The problem is that _ing _Un training is more difficult then what you need in a fight. and Demos are obviously more complex then you will use in an MMA setting, which is where this stuff will have to be visible...
    In fact, for me as a WT student, the demos were crystal clear and simple: they said, aloud:

    WE DO IT THIS SIMPLY, ELEGANTLY, AND VICTORIOUSLY.

    Said trio of adjectives is what folks are missing when a -un guy finally steps up and fights a fight outside of own gym, like you did.

    I guess it would be easier to just change the demos......
    It won't happen. Demos are the washing-powder-advertisement equivalent of MA's. They'll never change. Folks always need to wash their laundry, you know - and they keep buying...

    CLICK & WATCH
    :
    I got BULLSHIDO ON TV!!!

    "Bruce Lee sucks because I slammed my nuts with nunchucks trying to do that stupid **** back in the day. I still managed to have two kids. I forgive you Bruce.
    " - by Vorpal
  4. Dr._Tzun_Tzu is offline
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    It's pretty beat up, but it is a complete copy....

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    Posted On:
    3/05/2010 6:43pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    No, it doesn't need a thread, it is buried in about 15 threads right now.....
    ....
    .....
    Cool, IIF, I appreciate the perspective on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    READ the OP instead of reacting to a perceived slight to their beliefs.
    I have read the whole thread from day one, I even started training with a "hard man" as Southpaw suggested.

    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    If all CMAers got off their high horse and said "who gives a **** if it looks like sloppy boxing" did <insert opponent> get KO'ed? Then STFU. Yes, it will work.
    OK, we can see if that works. I don't see it but I only have one fight on video.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tonuzaba View Post
    WE DO IT THIS SIMPLY, ELEGANTLY, AND VICTORIOUSLY.

    Said trio of adjectives is what folks are missing when a -un guy finally steps up and fights a fight outside of own gym, like you did.
    Hey, I was victorious! and I only did simple moves..........so I need to work on my elegantness. OK, I think that was what IIF meant too, the CMA trap we did to ourselves, with the help of Shaw brothers and Jackie Chan, since CMA fighting is not generally elegant.

    "If anything is gained from this, it should be you both wanting to get better so you can make up for how crappy you are now." KidSpatula about the Sirc vs DTT Gong Sau Event
    Until the Bulltube is fixed:
    DTT vs Sirc

  5. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/05/2010 7:03pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr._Tzun_Tzu View Post
    . OK, I think that was what IIF meant too, the CMA trap we did to ourselves, with the help of Shaw brothers and Jackie Chan, since CMA fighting is not generally elegant.
    Fighting is fighting. It sounds stupid and escapist but it is true. Most people think I am anti-chun, I am anti-bullshit. The highest degree of Bullshit comes from the CMA arena. The highest of which are the Chun and Internal Martial arts. If there were more Tai Chi Chuan threads, I'd be talking **** in those.

    I don't blame cinema any longer. Long story short we had people to tell us superman, terminator, Godzilla were fake. There was no one there to tell us that most of those Shaw Brothers, even the Historically accurate ones, were stylized renditions.
  6. Dr._Tzun_Tzu is offline
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    It's pretty beat up, but it is a complete copy....

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    Posted On:
    3/05/2010 7:12pm

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     Style: EBMAS WT/ Latosa Concepts

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So, less elegant demos? ....;-)

    I mean, more people putting up in the ring and on the AC Transit as examples and less demos as examples.

    "If anything is gained from this, it should be you both wanting to get better so you can make up for how crappy you are now." KidSpatula about the Sirc vs DTT Gong Sau Event
    Until the Bulltube is fixed:
    DTT vs Sirc

  7. Permalost is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/05/2010 7:39pm

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     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You know what I don't like about the chun evidence threads? The fight footage of non-wt people winning fights by things that are kinda chun-like. For example, Vitor Belfort chasing someone down with hard straight punches to the face is not a victory for the chun, it's a victory for him, and just because the chunners approve doesn't make it so that their training method will automatically make you him. Hell, I could pull up youtube's vast database of people getting KTFOd by haymakers and talk about how effective their choy li fut is, but that wouldn't be correct either. As far as DDT's question of what do you want to see, personally I'd like to see video of the chun working in a fight where the fighter actually does wing chun (and I'll give him his fight with Sirc as evidence). Now we just need hundreds of more people like DDT stepping up, and we might have as much data on the chun working as we already have for jiujitsu, boxing, judo etc. Definitely an uphill battle though.
  8. Monkfg is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/06/2010 12:17pm


     

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    It's hard to even define wing chun. All you got is how, what and against what you train. Is it still wing chun without forms, does it stop being wing chun when you spar? That's the reason why one should forget about styles. Every single individual has different training and that's it.
  9. carter343 is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/26/2014 2:34pm

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    THIS!

    Quote Originally Posted by Monkfg View Post
    It's hard to even define wing chun. All you got is how, what and against what you train. Is it still wing chun without forms, does it stop being wing chun when you spar? That's the reason why one should forget about styles. Every single individual has different training and that's it.
    Couldn't have put it better! I think that different styles work for different people.
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