7/31/2007 11:33pm, #1
Is the kneebar applicable in MMA?
I'm curious as to what everyone thinks. Is the kneebar a viable submission in a MMA match, or does it leave the back of your head too exposed to strikes? To be clear, I'm not talking about the headlock-grip kneebar, but the more traditional move wherein you're hugging the foot to your chest with both arms.
I know Shamrock and a few others pulled it off, but nowadays people are more familar with leglocks, and are less likely to be caught off guard by them.
So what do you think? Will the back of your head get caved in (assuming hand strikes to the back of the head are allowed) or can you finish the sub beforehand?
8/01/2007 12:12am, #2
Hand strikes to the back of the head are pretty much just not allowed in any major (or legit minor) org, so that issue is moot. But even if back-of-the-head punches were allowed, the bigger problem with the kneebar, IMO, is that it's a power move and almost always leaves you in **** position if you fail. The problems in MMA are very similar to those in grappling when going for it. So my rule is, only go for it when either you know your opponent is weaker, know they suck at grappling, or are turtling for whatever reason and have an opportunity to go for it.
So really, I'd only use it while turtling.
8/01/2007 12:30am, #3Originally Posted by jnp
Sit up. Spin your outside leg over his head and plant it, sole of the foot down, next to his hip. PUSH hard off the ground and fall to your back. You should now be back to the ground with him belly down, with little danger of strikes to the back of the head. Finish the kneebar.Undisputed KING OF ASSHOLES.
8/01/2007 12:32am, #4Originally Posted by Cracky McSlugHootUndisputed KING OF ASSHOLES.
8/01/2007 3:42am, #5
I'm saying it takes more power than an armbar, and offers less of a chance to recover a decent position if you fail. If you feel confident going for it from the top of half-guard, fantastic, do so, I do when I'm against someone I think it'll land on, but I'm not giving up top half-guard to go for it, I simply have no desire to see who's slicker.
It's too easy for them to defend against, not by using invincible leg power, but by being able to hold you off long enough to triangle their legs and turn offline. Kneebars have to be really slick to work, and I don't count on being slick enough, maybe I'm more cautious than you. If I have top position, that has value to me, I want to keep it, and if I'm going for a submission, in MMA, then it has to be something that can fail and still leave me in a good position, like a keylock, or an RNC, or a triangle, or even an omoplata or armbar, all long before I consider a kneebar. If I have to win by grinding, then that's how I win. I don't take risks going for kneebars that might not land, unless it's not a risk at all and I'm not potentially sacrificing position, because I'm turtling.
IMO, kneebars are fun to go for in grappling, but in MMA, the risk of getting hit from the top after it fails makes it just not worth it to me. How often do you see kneebars in the UFC? How often at ADCC for that matter?
8/01/2007 6:01am, #6
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most recent attempt i saw was Guida on Griffin at UFC72; Guida couldnt quite get it and Griffin landed some meaty shots to his ribs but nothing too heavy, before Guida fucked it off and went for something else.
8/01/2007 9:03am, #7
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Most recent one that ended the fight that i can recall is Shogun Vs Randleman at Pride 32, that was real deep too.
Didn't T. Griffin get caught in another really deep knee bar a couple of fights back but managed to hold on?
8/01/2007 11:12am, #8
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I'd have to agree with Cracky, to a point. Kneebars are fun to do in practice but the risk vs reward factor in a MMA match doesn't compute. Frankly because when you can't finish it you are is a **** position. It's one of those submissions that stays in my little bag of tricks until it presents it self. I don't deliberately set them up.Amateur MMA record: 8-3-1
Pro MMA record: 3-1
Status: Semi retarded... I mean retired
8/01/2007 11:39am, #9Originally Posted by Cracky McSlugHoot
It's too easy for them to defend against, not by using invincible leg power, but by being able to hold you off long enough to triangle their legs and turn offline.
Kneebars have to be really slick to work, and I don't count on being slick enough, maybe I'm more cautious than you. If I have top position, that has value to me, I want to keep it, and if I'm going for a submission, in MMA, then it has to be something that can fail and still leave me in a good position,Undisputed KING OF ASSHOLES.
8/01/2007 12:33pm, #10Originally Posted by fatherdog