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  1. Ryno is offline

    Senior Member

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    Seattle (Ballard), WA
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    Posted On:
    7/30/2007 12:54pm


     Style: FMA, Jujutsu/Judo/SAMBO

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Dagon, that is a totally legitimate concern regarding takedowns in stickfighting, and is something that the dog brothers have been playing with a lot over the last decade or so. With my group I've noticed a lot of my guys getting stuck in clinch, or ignoring the fact that someone could just shoot in and ground and pound them. I'm hoping to someone remedy this by bringing in my Judo/Sombo instructor to make them aware of this possibility as far as a real fight goes. Many stick fighters just stand there in clinch attempting to repeatedly slap weak ass abanico hits from this situtation, instead of tossing their opponent on their head. For some reason a lot of the old timers just don't even consider this, perhaps because it is not an advisable thing to try against a blade. Nevertheless, it is a totally valid tactic against an impact weapon.

    I also agree that a lot of the static training in FMA is overempasized, to the point where many newbs get mislead into thinking that a fight will look like that, with your opponent standing there with his stick outstretched while you flurry off 20 strikes and then disarm him. It just isn't so. Doing this type of stuff has a place in training, where you learn how to effectively flurry and hook up combos, similar to how boxers hit focus mitts. But in reality, you won't be able to do this in a real fight. You may get off a two or three hit flurry, and you should make sure to make the hits count. This leads into one of my two favorite parts about the show.

    Chambers is hitting some tires, when one of the old masters comes up to him and says something to the effect of "Stop dancing. This isn't a dance, it is a fight! You need to stop worrying about dancing, and concern yourself with hitting hard." This was the only bit of coaching that really impressed me. I think that this point cannot be overstated enough, and is one of my biggest knocks on many FMA stylists. Flow drills and rythmic footwork alone will not teach you how to fight. In my opinion, they may do the exact opposite, encouraging soft and passive defense and predictable timing.

    The fight at the end was good, and it was good to see them go unarmored. I thought that Chambers' performance spoke highly of mma-style live, contact training in that he performed FAR better than his opponent expected, due to his aggression, evasion, and conditioning. Chambers was definitely outclassed in the stickhandling, but his timing and cardio was obviously pretty good and helped make up for his lack of pure stick skills.
  2. Matt W. is offline
    Matt W.'s Avatar

    Community Corrections Officer

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    Posted On:
    7/30/2007 1:04pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, TKD BB

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Another nice post, Ryno. But for the record, Chambers claimes some prior Escrima training.
  3. Dr._Tzun_Tzu is offline
    Dr._Tzun_Tzu's Avatar

    It's pretty beat up, but it is a complete copy....

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    Posted On:
    7/30/2007 3:14pm

    supporting member
     Style: EBMAS WT/ Latosa Concepts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I liked the street "demo" in the beginning.

    Good program but I haven't seen the last 15 minutes yet.

    "If anything is gained from this, it should be you both wanting to get better so you can make up for how crappy you are now." KidSpatula about the Sirc vs DTT Gong Sau Event
    Until the Bulltube is fixed:
    DTT vs Sirc

  4. Question! is offline

    Senior Member

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    Austin, TX
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    182

    Posted On:
    7/30/2007 4:00pm


     Style: BJJ, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I agree, other than showing them hitting the tires, they made no effort to explain power generation, the different angles/types of strikes and focused to much on the 'fancy' stuff instead.
  5. selfcritical is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    7/31/2007 7:27am


     Style: Pekiti, ARMA, other stuff

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt W.
    I thought it was pretty cool. I liked the sparring. I was impressed by the competition aspect, including the one with the masks and padded jackets. The fight at the end with the padded metal rods was also badass. I must admit to being a bit "TUF noobish" when it comes to Escrima. I actually thought the dog brothers were doing something new...

    Some of the disarms and throws seemed a bit unrealistic though. Elaborate set-ups and multi strike/movement followups where the always compliant opponent just stands there. Although, a disarm was pulled off in the final fight, so...
    Yah.......those aren't metal rods.

    The hosts are retarded. i'm holding a stripped one of those sticks in my hand right now. It's a very thin rattan core, and the cloth would come off very very quickly if it were metal of any kind. It's essentially a lite version of the lameco sticks. It's good to have just because it's relatively stiff and cheap as hell to buy. However, it WILL break on you.
  6. selfcritical is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    7/31/2007 7:31am


     Style: Pekiti, ARMA, other stuff

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryno
    Dagon, that is a totally legitimate concern regarding takedowns in stickfighting, and is something that the dog brothers have been playing with a lot over the last decade or so. With my group I've noticed a lot of my guys getting stuck in clinch, or ignoring the fact that someone could just shoot in and ground and pound them. I'm hoping to someone remedy this by bringing in my Judo/Sombo instructor to make them aware of this possibility as far as a real fight goes. Many stick fighters just stand there in clinch attempting to repeatedly slap weak ass abanico hits from this situtation, instead of tossing their opponent on their head. For some reason a lot of the old timers just don't even consider this, perhaps because it is not an advisable thing to try against a blade. Nevertheless, it is a totally valid tactic against an impact weapon.

    I also agree that a lot of the static training in FMA is overempasized, to the point where many newbs get mislead into thinking that a fight will look like that, with your opponent standing there with his stick outstretched while you flurry off 20 strikes and then disarm him. It just isn't so. Doing this type of stuff has a place in training, where you learn how to effectively flurry and hook up combos, similar to how boxers hit focus mitts. But in reality, you won't be able to do this in a real fight. You may get off a two or three hit flurry, and you should make sure to make the hits count. This leads into one of my two favorite parts about the show.

    Chambers is hitting some tires, when one of the old masters comes up to him and says something to the effect of "Stop dancing. This isn't a dance, it is a fight! You need to stop worrying about dancing, and concern yourself with hitting hard." This was the only bit of coaching that really impressed me. I think that this point cannot be overstated enough, and is one of my biggest knocks on many FMA stylists. Flow drills and rythmic footwork alone will not teach you how to fight. In my opinion, they may do the exact opposite, encouraging soft and passive defense and predictable timing.

    The fight at the end was good, and it was good to see them go unarmored. I thought that Chambers' performance spoke highly of mma-style live, contact training in that he performed FAR better than his opponent expected, due to his aggression, evasion, and conditioning. Chambers was definitely outclassed in the stickhandling, but his timing and cardio was obviously pretty good and helped make up for his lack of pure stick skills.
    I actually think the fight at the end would have been much better with headgear on, even if only light headgear. You could tell they were both shying away from head shots, which changes the dynamic of the fight. Head shots demand respect, and force you to actually defend.
  7. ChickenBeakFist is offline
    ChickenBeakFist's Avatar

    Registered Member

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    Jul 2007
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    Warm, Biscuity, West Virginia
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    Posted On:
    7/31/2007 9:14am


     Style: Hillbilly Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    No Dancing!

    I agree with the criticism of them spending too much time on fancy movements and unneccessarily complicated take down maneuvers. But hey, that kind of stuff is what hooks in the casual fans so I don't begrudge them their need to get some butts in the seats. What I appreciate about this show is that they seem to be spending time with people who are genuinely passionate and knowledgable about the arts rather than some mullet-headed, beer-gutted "Sensei" down at the local McDojo. The dedication and skill on display in the Escrima episode gives me a guilty conscience. I've never seen anything like it in the States.

    Line of the night: Jason Chambers practicing on the tire stack with the typical fancy movements when one of the older gentlemen comes up to him and says something along the lines of "Stop Dancing! This is not a dance studio! This is a martial arts studio!" I wanted to give him a standing ovation....
  8. selfcritical is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/31/2007 10:47am


     Style: Pekiti, ARMA, other stuff

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Naszir
    I understand the reasons, I just hate that they didn't even get a blurb or passing shot of it. It would be like doing a show on freestyle wrestling and not showing a double leg or a sprawl. BTW Question, are you going to the Balicki seminar?
    You see the force recon marines working the footwork, but no discussion of it
  9. Plasma is online now
    Plasma's Avatar

    Bullshido Admin

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    Posted On:
    7/31/2007 2:38pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: 柔術

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dagon Akujin
    I kept getting the feeling that Jason Chambers could have just taken the guy down and gone for the GnP. I would have much rather seen them fight some of the Dog Brothers.

    I understand that they are fighting/sparring the way the art practices... but does that mean that if they did a TKD episode, when Bill loses against a flippy-spin kick in a point sparring match that they'll say the guy was the uber-deadly? Would they simply have them do chi-sao and then say, "Wow, that guy with 20 years beat me in chi-sao. It must be the deadly"?

    Dagon

    There is no TKD ep.

    Upcoming eps are : Karate and Savate Streetfighting. TKD isn't even on there MA list
  10. Matt W. is offline
    Matt W.'s Avatar

    Community Corrections Officer

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    Posted On:
    7/31/2007 3:56pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, TKD BB

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Actually, all TKD bashing aside, that's a bit surprising considering it is hugely popular world-wide and an Olympic sport.
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