How Do New Style?

[cyril]

Hey, how about we just teach TKD as it's fucking supposed to be taught.

I think that Oldman34 has come to the conclusion that TKD in its current sinking ship state is not salvageable. Not saying that teaching TKD correctly isn't important. Just disguising it to get a better following.

Create a new system to start over, trying to keep the ship afloat.

[oldman34]

I think that Oldman34 has come to the conclusion that TKD in its current sinking ship state is not salvageable. Not saying that teaching TKD correctly isn't important. Just disguising it to get a better following.

Create a new system to start over, trying to keep the ship afloat.

This is exactly the conclusion I have come to.

Hey, how about we just teach TKD as it's fucking supposed to be taught.

If you say, I teach TKD like its supposed to be taught, then fine, but some people will say, "So you gave t3h r34l TKD"

Others, confused by the TMA bashers will generalize TKD and say, "I dont want to take a MA that doesnt let me punch to the head."

So we start a new style that teaches TKD as it was intended. You give it a name [something] TKD. That way people can differetiate between plain ass soccer mom TKD and our style.

The new style will be KNOWN for teaching TKD correctly.

My friend, who went up the ranks of TKD with me, went into the army. The amount of time it took him to go through boot camp was a hell of a lot shorter than the 2 years it took him to earn a black belt. And he was the "ready" to head into a war zone and die for our country.

First off, dont you think 2 years is kind of short to be able to call yourself a BB? Thats whats wrong with TKD today.

Secondly, you cant compare Military Boot Camp with a MA school. You dont have the students 24/7, you cant run them like a drill instructor, and even if you did they still wouldnt be proficient in the art.
Even after twelve weeks at Paris Island, Marines still have to go through AIT School. So your analogy fails here.

I think that instead of focusing on time requirements, a school should focus on the level of training and the ability of their students. Seems silly to deny promotion to someone because they haven't attended "X" number of classes or has been with you for at least 5 years.

Focusing on the training is precisely what we are doing. Thats why time is required for advancement. Quality control of training. No 2 year BB's.

Of course the number of classes will decide wether you are ready to test for the next belt level. That way you dont get your blue belt, wait six months and have barely come to class and then test for your brown belt. This leads to shitty practitioners.

No one is gauranteed a BB in 5 years either. You MUST meet the requirements of a BB in order to test for it.

It seems silly to me to give someone a BB in 24 months of training. BJ Penn is called "The Phenom". Why? Because it took him 4 years to earn a BB in BJJ. A feat that usually take 8 to 10 years. Notice how BJJ doesnt seem to have the shitty soccer mom BB's walking around.

Trim belts back to the original 5 colors

Have a competition/mandatory sparring requirement for rank

I dont think TKD ever had just 5 belt colors. I dont know , so if someone (Errant, Matt W.) could help here.
Believe it or not, there are some people who like the positive reinforcement of testing for a belt. It gives them a goal to strive for.
Even my BJJ school gives out stripes on the belts. Not much difference between a stripe or a belt is there?

As to the sparring requirement...great idea.

Can you give a little more detail as to your idea?
Are you saying that they have to win or place in so many compettions before they can advance?

[conceited]

Oldman34, Good luck to you sir. As far as belts I'm of the camp that belts shouldn't be used as positive psychological reinforcement but as a standard bearer of the wearers skill. Stripes would do just fine for positive reinforcement.

[allan]

I dont think TKD ever had just 5 belt colors. I dont know , so if someone (Errant, Matt W.) could help here.

In South Korea it's only 5 coloured belts.


I'll go a step further backwards. Let's say you want to create your own MA. How would you go about it?

What I would do is to only teach SD the first 2 years, because I know that 71 % of alle who apply for membership in my gym wants SD because I have at short questionnaire on my membership application form they have to answer.

After two years of SD the students should be allowed to specialize becaus people are different. Maybe some want to specialize even further in SD, some want to compete ind tournaments and others just want some cardio training because they got from the 2 years of SD training what they wanted. There may be even further types of specialization.

I can apply this to oldman's new TKD style:

First 2 years no patterns (the way patterns are taught and trained today = Tae Bo). Teach them how to use kicks and punches etc.
After two years there are the specializations: Avanced SD, competition and cardio etc.
Keep the competition kick-oriented to keep the TKD-flavour. For the cardio make patterns that are full of kicks.

And BTW keep the plain white dobok and only one patch!

[MaverickZ]

If you say, I teach TKD like its supposed to be taught, then fine, but some people will say, "So you gave t3h r34l TKD"

Others, confused by the TMA bashers will generalize TKD and say, "I dont want to take a MA that doesnt let me punch to the head."

So we start a new style that teaches TKD as it was intended. You give it a name [something] TKD. That way people can differetiate between plain ass soccer mom TKD and our style.

The new style will be KNOWN for teaching TKD correctly.

So you want to go from "the people" saying "Oh, it's sucky TKD." to "Oh, it's another new made up Korean martial art." How many flavors of the same Korean art do we have these days anyway?

Let me quote the philosopher Durden.
"A generation of men raised by women. I'm wondering if another woman is the answer we really need." Just replace "women" with "TKD".

[cyril]

Let me quote the philosopher Durden.
"A generation of men raised by women. I'm wondering if another woman is the answer we really need." Just replace "women" with "TKD".

See? Even he didn't know.

In all reality, I don't know how well a new style would fare, or if it could possibly do better. Everyone has their solution, and everyone wants to redesign the wheel to fit THEIR needs, but when all is said and done, what good comes out of it?

How often do you see one oppressive government get thrown over just for a new regime to take its place and start abusing its power?

It's easy to SAY you'll run a small country fairly. It's another thing to do it.

[MaverickZ]

See? Even he didn't know.

In all reality, I don't know how well a new style would fare, or if it could possibly do better. Everyone has their solution, and everyone wants to redesign the wheel to fit THEIR needs, but when all is said and done, what good comes out of it?

How often do you see one oppressive government get thrown over just for a new regime to take its place and start abusing its power?

It's easy to SAY you'll run a small country fairly. It's another thing to do it.

It was a rhetorical question.

[cyril]

It was a rhetorical question.

Deserving of a sarcastic answer? If it wasn't I'm sorry I gave it one.

I figure since I'm posting, I may as well think a bit more on the subject at hand. I fully support a new martial art. I'm up for finding what works and what doesn't. Trimming the fat and skimming the milk both have to be done in order to keep things orderly. But as for TKD, it's not a case of a new martial art, it's a stealthy way to reintroduce it to people and give it a fighting chance against the evils of McDojangism.

We're faced with whether it is better to fight in the system or form our own system. This really isn't that different from the choice of TACTICS of black civil rights movements. Either we work in the system (Maverick's teach the fucking thing right) or we form a new system (Oldman's introduction of a new martial art).

There exists a third choice, but that is what we are currently under. The third choice (If I'm still using the black civil rights movement as a template) is to work in the system, but have support from the outside.

The problem is, working inside the system is extremely difficult and rallying troops would be difficult. With the form a new system, the new martial art is easily sepperated from the inside, and you can make all decisions on your terms. Recruitment becomes an issue and stuff.

I'm sick and at work so bye.

Hopefully, I didn't ramble too much, and hopefully I didn't come off as an ass. Not a PC cop out, but both of your ideas have merits. It's just a decision of actual implementation.

[Blues-man]

I don't think that another style is the solution, but if you want to do it...

IIF:
One pattern for each belt level. They will be the current ITF style patterns. No sparring combos/kumite or other nonsense. I believe that the longest underank pattern is Chong-Moo (Poom belt) at 32 moves.

The longest colored belt tul is Yul Gok, with 38 movements. Oh, and if you use the current ITF 24 patterns, I think that you should use Kodang instead of Juche. Or at least change the name of Juche and call it Kodang, I don't know...

I dont think TKD ever had just 5 belt colors. I dont know , so if someone (Errant, Matt W.) could help here.

In the first english Taekwon-Do book written by Choi Hong Hi (1965), there are three colors + black belt.



White belt
Blue belt
Brown belt
Black belt

[oldman34]

We're faced with whether it is better to fight in the system or form our own system.

This is the conclusion I have reached.

First 2 years no patterns (the way patterns are taught and trained today = Tae Bo). Teach them how to use kicks and punches etc.
After two years there are the specializations: Avanced SD, competition and cardio etc.
Keep the competition kick-oriented to keep the TKD-flavour. For the cardio make patterns that are full of kicks.

The art will be entirely about SD.

Oldman34, Good luck to you sir. As far as belts I'm of the camp that belts shouldn't be used as positive psychological reinforcement but as a standard bearer of the wearers skill. Stripes would do just fine for positive reinforcement.

I agree with it being a general indication of the wearers skill.
Forgive me if I come off wrong here, but isnt using stripes for positive reinforcement tha same as using a belt rank for it?
The whole point of the new style of TKD is to ensure that the belt is generally indicative of the wearers skill level.

I would like to keep the "time in grade" system because it will cut down of the favoritism route of advancement.
Of course I can see the where the "advance when earned" way too. In my BJJ school, you can advance without competing in tourneys, however, if you do compete and a re constantly wining your divison, then you will advance faster.

Thats another problem. 9 belts will mean time in grade + physical requirements must be met in order to advance.
Using the white, blue brown, black system appeals to me more.

I am stuck on a fence here. Please give me some convincing arguments for or against either belt system.