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  1. Kubili is offline

    Featherweight

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    Illinois, USA
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    Posted On:
    7/30/2007 7:24pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Searching

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Push hands at competitions are a joke. The moving push hands that i've seen and participated felt and looked more like a sumo match or a defensive or offensive line drill. This was in Chicago last July. I still had fun though. I don't think there was great deal of Tai Chi Principals being applied.
  2. Arbiter is offline
    Arbiter's Avatar

    punch-drunk

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    Posted On:
    7/30/2007 10:00pm

    supporting member
     Style: SanDa / MMA / Kung-Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jackrusher
    Silly dan tien aside, will you be coming down to the NYC KingSize Throwdown in September? I'd like to see — and more importantly, feel — how that branch does the drill. It has always seemed weird to me that _ing _un lacked body power, so it'd be quite cool to see a flavor that has it.
    Jack, I doubt I will be able to make it down for that throwdown, although that sounds like a lot of fun. Yes, I would also enjoy playing around with some chi sau and comparing with different backgrounds, or some friendly sparring. Will probably be in NYC for some competitions this fall and could possibly meet up with you or anyone else at that time who was so inclined. Would also like to put something like that together up in Boston sometime too, wish I wasnt so damn swamped with work as it really puts a damper on my training time.....
  3. Jack Rusher is offline
    Jack Rusher's Avatar

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    7/31/2007 8:39am


     Style: ti da shuai na

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Arbiter
    Will probably be in NYC for some competitions this fall and could possibly meet up with you or anyone else at that time who was so inclined.
    I'm sure we could put together a fun mini-TD with as little as a week's notice anytime in the autumn (or just anytime). Keep me updated on Boston TDs, it's not that far to ride the Dragon Bus.
  4. Tom Kagan is offline
    Tom Kagan's Avatar

    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

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    Posted On:
    7/31/2007 12:13pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    - Push hands
    - Sticking Hands (notice the 'ing' and not 'y')
    - Grip Fighting
    - Hand Fighting
    - Plum Drills
    - Pummeling Drills
    - (a few others I can't remember)


    While they have their various quirks for various reasons, they are mostly the same. The necessary UNDERLYING attributes any practitioner requires to be decent at any of the above skills have a common theme. Balance/Unbalance, Mantain/Change distance, Forward/"Void" energy, Positioning/disrupting the line, etc - they are universal. (NOTE: The differences in the above list are mainly in the mechanics, intent, and the resulting technique choices when the proper conditions are met.)


    If you are decent at one of the above methods, then (after working out the mechanics of someone else's methods) you should be able to adapt to the other's quirks and rule set. Within a minimum amount of time (hours/days) you should be able to have a mutually beneficial and fun time playing with that specific part of another person's game - and enjoy the differences in the intent and results.


    People sure do seem to love to pigeonholing and say "this style has this, that style has that...". Frankly, from my perspective, that's very "un" Kung Fu like. However, the real truth is there is a common theme.

    If the method you follow to train the same underlying attributes means you you can't adapt in a relative straightforward fashion to someone else's method, then your method of training those attributes suck... and, more to the point, you suck.


    Hot funk, cool punk, even if it's old junk
    It's still rock and roll to me
    -- Billy Joel
    Last edited by Tom Kagan; 7/31/2007 12:16pm at .
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
    Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
    Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
    Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
    Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
    Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a ***** or just cruising for some
    I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
    TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
    ATTN TOM KAGAN
    World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
    Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
    I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
    Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.
  5. It is Fake is offline
    It is Fake's Avatar

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    Posted On:
    7/31/2007 12:28pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kagan


    People sure do seem to love to pigeonholing and say "this style has this, that style has that...". Frankly, from my perspective, that's very "un" Kung Fu like. However, the real truth is there is a common theme.

    If the method you follow to train the same underlying attributes means you you can't adapt in a relative straightforward fashion to someone else's method, then your method of training those attributes suck... and, more to the point, you suck.


    Hot funk, cool punk, even if it's old junk
    It's still rock and roll to me
    -- Billy Joel
    See, here is someone else that agrees. Yours is a better fleshing out of my point.

    This is what I said earlier

    DTT is getting close but, like with most style defenders, they want their art to have some form of exclusivity. When or if the blinders lift DTT will understand and grow as a Martial artist.
  6. Dr._Tzun_Tzu is offline
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    It's pretty beat up, but it is a complete copy....

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    Posted On:
    7/31/2007 2:06pm

    supporting member
     Style: EBMAS WT/ Latosa Concepts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So in other words, BJJ is just chi sau on the ground?

    unfortunatly most people only do the START of any MA, and think the beginning point is the whole thing. The minor focus differences as Tom points out are only the different introductions, as they all come around to each other in the long run.

    "If anything is gained from this, it should be you both wanting to get better so you can make up for how crappy you are now." KidSpatula about the Sirc vs DTT Gong Sau Event
    Until the Bulltube is fixed:
    DTT vs Sirc

  7. It is Fake is offline
    It is Fake's Avatar

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    Posted On:
    7/31/2007 2:13pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr._Tzun_Tzu
    So in other words, BJJ is just chi sau on the ground?
    Nope two different applications. Striking is separate from ground grappling arts. So, sambo has similarities to BJJ, CACCW Wrestling etc. BJJ may have similar principles but to say BJJ is like shadowboxing on the ground is silly.

    You know we are discussing PH vs CS don't go off the deep end we were doing so well.
    unfortunatly most people only do the START of any MA, and think the beginning point is the whole thing. The minor focus differences as Tom points out are only the different introductions, as they all come around to each other in the long run.
    Which makes this whole discussion redundant. There is no real difference except in the look. All the principles are exactly the same.
  8. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

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    Posted On:
    7/31/2007 2:46pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr._Tzun_Tzu
    So in other words, BJJ is just chi sau on the ground?

    unfortunatly most people only do the START of any MA, and think the beginning point is the whole thing. The minor focus differences as Tom points out are only the different introductions, as they all come around to each other in the long run.
    Nope, that's not I meant.


    From my point of view, it's clear to me why you do Wing Tsun™ (w/ trademark symbol) as opposed to something else.


    ... of course, I'm fully expecting you to post a response correcting that by explaining you don't do Wing Tsun™ but instead do EMBAS™.
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
    Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
    Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
    Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
    Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
    Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a ***** or just cruising for some
    I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
    TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
    ATTN TOM KAGAN
    World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
    Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
    I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
    Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.
  9. Jack Rusher is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/31/2007 7:39pm


     Style: ti da shuai na

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kagan
    From my point of view, it's clear to me why you do Wing Tsun™ (w/ trademark symbol) as opposed to something else.
    I find this a bit cryptic. Why do you feel he practices that particular style?
  10. It is Fake is offline
    It is Fake's Avatar

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    Posted On:
    8/01/2007 1:15am

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jackrusher
    I find this a bit cryptic. Why do you feel he practices that particular style?
    Inside joke/sarcasm. Read DTT's post history and you'll understand.
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