M & P or Px4

**vigilus** · Posted On: 7/26/2007 9:53pm

50 Cal. Desert Eagle.......I know nothing of handguns.

Then why even bother posting?

**Phrost** · Posted On: 7/26/2007 10:24pm

Besides, the .500 Mag round is significantly more powerful than the "shitty" .50 AE.

From left:

.454 casull, .50 AE, .500 Mag.

**Don Gwinn** · Posted On: 7/26/2007 11:24pm

Back to the topic at hand, I hear very good things about the M&P. A friend uses one since his department in Ohio evaluated it, and he loves it. He has a couple of gripes, but I don't recall them offhand. His is a .40 (and I wouldn't count the .40 out until you shoot it in the gun you want--recoil is totally subjective. Nobody can tell you what you'll think of different recoil.)
FWIW, Mike says the .40 is very tame in the M&P, but I haven't fired one.
Here's the thread where Mike keeps his roundcount and notes on reliability as time goes on:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthrea...ighlight=M%26P

I haven't fired the Beretta. Berettas are usually well made, and you know how to spell the name, so you're one up on most people.

**SFGOON** · Posted On: 7/27/2007 12:48am

I always have and always will reccomend the Glock despite it's lack of traditional safeties. It's a solid, reliable weapon and only a moron would handle it in such a manner that causes and accidental discharge.

On an entirely unrelated note, does anyone know how to precanulate an IV line? What brand of anticoagulant works best for that?

**Robstafarian** · Posted On: 7/27/2007 1:46am

Originally Posted by Phrost

I'm looking at getting one of these:

http://www.gundirectory.com/more.asp...225&gun=Pistol

$315, 16+1 capacity in 9mm. The only complaints I've seen is with a strong trigger pull, which can always be adjusted.

Bud's Gun Shop FTW!

**Bladesinger** · Posted On: 7/27/2007 1:48am

Originally Posted by Phrost

From left:

.454 casull, .50 AE, .500 Mag.
[pic removed by me to make quote not-so-big]

I always wondered how they sat next to each other, now I know. Thanks.

On another note, I used to greatly desire a .454 Casull, in much the same way I used to desire the Desert Eagle .50ae.
Because it was big, and because it has a cool name.

Now I know I don't want the .50ae(though a DE in .44 wouldn't be amiss....if someone gave it to me for free), and I'm iffy on the .454.
It's frikken huge! Can't say where I'd ever need it, to be honest, not more than a .44mag, .45acp or .45colt, anyway. *edit* Now I'm looking, anyone know if there's any real difference in .454 casull and .45 colt? Never handled either, myself.
Though my next buy is a .50 muzzloader pistol, though that's different. And it's just so damn purty to boot.

Random musings...

**ysc87** · Posted On: 7/27/2007 2:12am

Originally Posted by Phrost

Yeah, Deagle posts should get you banned here.

That made me giggle.

Originally Posted by Equipoise

State why.

I used to like shooting the 92 at the range alot, and one day, another regular decided to whip out his new PX4, and he was gracious enough to let me go through the first clip. I shot 5 rounds @ 20 ft, got them all in the 10ring, but there was just something strange about the grip. The "new ergonomic grip" just made it feel like I was holding a cheaply made airsoft pistol. I guess I prefer guns that just seem to fit right as soon as I put my hand on them. Which brings me to the next part....

Originally Posted by Equipoise

Regarding the .40, the guy said that the gun recoil has an upward snap versus a back and forward recoil motion.

...the USP .40, and more recently, a Sig226 .40 are my favorites. And it's true- the recoil is a bit of a upward motion, but as soon as I changed my grip to double thumbs forward, it was almost unnoticable for me.

And, back to the point of the thread, I'd definitely go with the M&P. I've heard many good things about it, and another regular ditched his glock 17 for one.

**vigilus** · Posted On: 7/27/2007 8:46am

Glock series and 1911's get my vote. I'm curious about the USP .40 now too.
I've shot a glock 22 and the difference in accuracy over our browning 9mms was enough to make the baby jesus cry.

**Robstafarian** · Posted On: 7/27/2007 10:58am

Originally Posted by Bladesinger

*edit* Now I'm looking, anyone know if there's any real difference in .454 casull and .45 colt?

I'm sorry I this isn't a concise comparison, but I'm not willing to put in any more work than this 8?}

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

The .454 Casull (pronounced Ka-Sool) is a firearm cartridge , developed in 1957 by Dick Casull and Jack Fulmer. It was first announced in November 1959 by Guns and Ammo magazine. The basic design was a lengthened and structurally improved .45 Colt case. .45 Colt cartridges can fit into the .454's chambers, but not the other way because of the lengthened case (very similar to the way .38 Special cartridges can fit into the longer chambers of a .357 Magnum and .44 Special cartridges can fit into the longer chambers of a .44 Magnum). The new Casull round uses a small rifle primer rather than a pistol primer, because it develops extremely high chamber pressures of over 60,000 CUP (Copper Units of Pressure, not to be confused with Pounds per Square Inch) (410 MPa), and a rifle primer has a significantly stronger cup than a pistol primer. The .454 Casull can deliver a 250 grain (16 g) bullet with a muzzle velocity of over 1900 feet per second (580 m/s), developing more than 2000 ft·lbf (2.7 KJ) of energy, although energy levels from common .454 revolvers with 7-8 inch barrels are typically somewhat lower (1,600-1,700 ft·lbf). The round is primarily intended for hunting medium or large game and metallic silhouette shooting.

Ballistic performance
Bullet weight/type Velocity Energy
240 gr JHP 1900 ft/s (~579 m/s) 1923 ft·lbf (~2615 J)
300 gr JHP 1650 ft/s (~503 m/s) 1831 ft·lbf (~2490 J)
Test barrel length: 7.5 in

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

The .45 Colt cartridge (known commonly as the ".45 Long Colt ") was developed by the US Army at Frankfort Arsenal in 1872 as an improvement of the British .476 Eley to replace the standard issue Smith and Wesson .44 round in the famous Colt Single Action Army, often known as the Peacemaker single action revolver. The US Army adopted the cartridge in 1873 and it remained in use until 1877 when the army went to the M1877 ball revolver load. The new round was shorter than the original in case length and used a reduced powder charge of approximately 30 grains of black powder vs the 40 grains in the original. All Colt army revolvers were still chambered to fit the longer .45 cartridge case. In 1892 it was replaced by the .38 Long Colt. The US Army briefly reintroduced the .45 Colt in 1902 for use in the Philippines, but it was made obsolete by new automatic pistols firing .45 ACP.

Originally a blackpowder cartridge, modern loadings use smokeless powder. The original blackpowder loads called for 30 to 40 grains of blackpowder behind a 255 grain lead bullet. Original loads developed muzzle velocities of up to 1000 feet per second (305 m/s), for a muzzle energy of 566 ft·lbf (766 J.).[1] Because of this, the .45 Colt was the most used cartridge of its time, preceded by the .44 WCF (also known as the .44-40). It was said that the round was powerful enough to knock a man to the ground in a single shot. It is also extremely accurate. With careful handloading the original loads can be safely replicated using modern powders.

Today's standard factory loads develop around 400 ft·lbf (542 J) of muzzle energy at about 860 feet per second, making it equivalent to the .45 ACP. However, there are Cowboy Action Shooting loads which develop muzzle velocities of around 1000 feet per second.

Some very heavy handloads and some cartridges loaded by small companies are around that put this round in the same class as the faster .44 Magnum. Such loads are NOT the standard ammunition put out by the major companies such as Winchester and Remington.

These loads cannot be used in any original Colt Single-Action Army, or any replica thereof (such as those produced by Uberti or Beretta, and guns like the Taurus Gaucho, or Ruger Vaquero.) They should only be used in modern large-frame revolvers such as the Ruger Blackhawk, any gun firing the .454 Casull cartridge, or single-shot hunting pistols and rifles chambered for the cartridge.