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  1. Fantasy Warrior is offline
    Fantasy Warrior's Avatar

    Misguided style basher

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    Posted On:
    8/23/2007 10:40pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kata

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    No, seriously why can't people train MA in a T-shirt and shorts, or in the case of Judo/BJJ a cheap non-bleached non-branded Judo gi? Accepting a level of bullshit in your training is a personal choice, but that doesn't make the bullshit ok. It's still bullshit.
    You are a total Douchbag. Train more, post nevermore.
    FickleFingerOfFate -08-21-2007 08:59 AM

    just die already.
    Plasma - 08-20-2007 11:45 PM


    Aikidokkkkakkakakakaaaaa
    Best MA website ever!!!!!: http://www.dogjudo.co.uk/
  2. UpaLumpa is offline
    UpaLumpa's Avatar

    Exasperated.

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    Posted On:
    8/24/2007 12:47pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You can train in whatever you want. An issue that comes up is in regards to gi's and competition. At my school we recently were told that apparently we're supposed to wear a gi with our instructor's instructor's logo etc, since we're affiliated with them. Many, myself included, hate this rule because we don't care for his gi's.

    There is however a rationale for the position. Many gi companies are owned by schools/instructors. As such, you may often end up during competition competing under the name of one team while effectively wearing the jersey of another. That wouldn't fly in any sport (even rec sports that you're paying to participate in). As mentioned I don't like the rule, and hate the gi, but accept that there is a basis for it. During training, however, I'll wear whatever gi I fucking feel like.
  3. Dr._Tzun_Tzu is offline
    Dr._Tzun_Tzu's Avatar

    It's pretty beat up, but it is a complete copy....

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    California
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    Posted On:
    8/25/2007 1:22am

    supporting member
     Style: EBMAS WT/ Latosa Concepts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ethics would hope that you can buy whatever you want where ever you want, being a free market capitial society, but in that same tenat, you should support those business owners you respect with as much business as you can. It is capitialism that keeps the lights on remember....you vote in many ways with your dollars.


    so the question is do repect the MA and the teacher enough to do this?

    I have run a MA school and had to take a third job to keep the location rented and heated, so I undrstand fully the need to "force" students to buy certain items. But I took a 3rd job instead. Freedom is not free or easy.

    as to no cross training, there can be many reasons for this. It makes sense to focus into one MA for a short period of time so that you can make a valid judgement of the results, but you must also be free to sniff around too. It also prevents muscle memory patterns from canceling out. But again, you have to go back out to the big picture and sniff around.

    The best sign of a successful MA is if they enourage you to sniff around because they know you will have to come back to you. But still they have to prove to you they are that good, independant of results benifiting cross training.

    If you have a team, cross training may betray techniques and tactics, so this may be off limits unless you can be trusted to mislead the enemys, not give them working material. Even without a "team" invovled with sports, the knowledge base itself is a commodity and they may wish to prevent the spread of it freely, or atleast by newbees that have no vested intrest.

    Plus having tired beginners going around "representing" you is bad for the image...:icon_cycl

    "If anything is gained from this, it should be you both wanting to get better so you can make up for how crappy you are now." KidSpatula about the Sirc vs DTT Gong Sau Event
    Until the Bulltube is fixed:
    DTT vs Sirc

  4. Fantasy Warrior is offline
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    Misguided style basher

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    Posted On:
    8/25/2007 11:55pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kata

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What a lame bunch of excuses that instructors may use to exploit their students mate. "I don't want you trying other clubs cos you're crap and people might realise that what I teach is crap" and "We have the REAL zuzitzu and it's a trade secret"
    You are a total Douchbag. Train more, post nevermore.
    FickleFingerOfFate -08-21-2007 08:59 AM

    just die already.
    Plasma - 08-20-2007 11:45 PM


    Aikidokkkkakkakakakaaaaa
    Best MA website ever!!!!!: http://www.dogjudo.co.uk/
  5. UpaLumpa is offline
    UpaLumpa's Avatar

    Exasperated.

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    Descending into absurdity
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    Posted On:
    8/26/2007 1:22pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The person to whom you're responding does ing chun.
  6. Fantasy Warrior is offline
    Fantasy Warrior's Avatar

    Misguided style basher

    Join Date
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    Posted On:
    8/26/2007 3:37pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kata

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    yeah so $5 T-shirt and running bottoms/shorts would suffice as far as fit-for-purpose attire in his case.
    You are a total Douchbag. Train more, post nevermore.
    FickleFingerOfFate -08-21-2007 08:59 AM

    just die already.
    Plasma - 08-20-2007 11:45 PM


    Aikidokkkkakkakakakaaaaa
    Best MA website ever!!!!!: http://www.dogjudo.co.uk/
  7. Miles is offline

    Featherweight

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    Mar 2007
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    33

    Posted On:
    8/28/2007 12:31pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Taekwondo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Many schools require students to purchase the equipment through the school-it acts as a means of making additional revenue for the school AND a means of quality control for the student (so they are not buying the cheapest gear on the market).

    As far as cross-training, traditionally one did not do so until they were of sufficient experience (in the instructor's opinion) to have at least the rudiments of the first martial art down. Nowadays, you can often cross-train at the very same school.

    Good luck in your training!

    Miles
  8. sunshaker is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/28/2007 11:06pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: BJJ/Judo/Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by pittfrog
    Is it normal for an instructor to require you to buy all MA gear from him/her, and to require you to ask permission before training elsewhere or competing?
    I trained at a place like that once. The instructor belived that we had to dedicate ourselves to the art to truly master it (people who acheived Black Belt status could train what ever they wanted). This even included telling another student that they could not train to be a gymnastics coach. Personally I think it is bullshit, which is one of the reasons why I quit that school.

    That school did sell equipment, though you could use any equipment you wanted (as long as they felt it was safe) and the prices were reasonable (similar to other stores).
  9. Chaghatai is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/30/2007 5:53pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Muay Thai/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My school makes both bleached and unbleached HKC gi's available and sells the patches seperatly. The unbleached ones are only $60. On top of that, The school sells the patches and a patch set seperatly.
    I got a dirt-cheap KI single weave for $40 on sale at the local Anzen (japan store). Guess what? No one cares. If someone doesn't like the seam on the back of an HKC, or for any other reason doesn't like the gi's sold, a student is free to go elsewhere to get it.
    As far as gloves etc. go, being proprietary is even worse, cause unless yer a gnub, you probably have gear, and some of us are brand-loyal. Also, and this is a biggie, gym brands are often crap, so they can be cheap enough to get a good mark-up on for the gym. Even if they had good stuff like fairtex and twins, I wouldn't wanna stop using my windy gear, and some students would find premium ear expen$ive.
    School gi can be tolerated (I'd still approach the instructer,, say that I have this Mkimono that I love and can I buy school patches for it, but that's just me), but gear is just silly. It's not there's much patently unsafe gear as long as it is being used as intended (ie. no idiots buying century gel-wraps and trying to use them as mma gloves)
    So again, find out the policies early, and unless you want to marry your gym, run the other way if they have proprietary gear and cross-training policies.
  10. chemistry is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
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    139

    Posted On:
    8/31/2007 9:53am


     Style: Shotokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sometimes, having your students buy equipment through your own school, isn't a bad thing at all. Yes, it's true, that some schools are going to force their students to pay a boatload of money for some el-cheapo gi that will rip apart in no time, or sparring gloves that fall apart at the seams after a few sessions.

    I find that the above practice of forcing your students to buy garbage items at exorbitant prices, to be reprehensible, as should anyone with a good sense of ethics.


    On the other side of the coin, we encourage our students to purchase them through us. The main reason, as Miles well-stated, is to ensure that they aren't stuck with something that's of horrible quality. If someone wants to buy something on their own, that's their choice, but for the majority of folks, it's going to be more convenient for them to buy through us.

    To put it this way, the low end uniforms that we sell to students who are starting out, are still of decent quality, that they do a fairly good job of wicking away perspiration, and help keep them cooler and drier than other inexpensive uniforms. They'll also hold up to a fair amount of grappling techniques, and not rip.

    However, once in a while, there's going to be someone who went to the sporting goods chain store, and bought one of those paper-thin Century gi's, that cling to you once you start sweating in any appreciable amount. These gi's will also easily tear apart with any modicum of grappling. To make things worse, they seem to trap bad odors in the poorly designed fabrics.

    The students who bought the cheap equipment then realize, that they could have spent a bit more $$$, and gotten a far better product, had they simply gone through us.

    What we charge is still a very fair price, typically being only a few dollars higher than what retailers normally charge.

    For premium uniforms, we still encourage them to buy through us. While it's true, that if they go through the internet, use whatever froogle.google.com search to find the same uniform, they can probably find it for about 10-15 bucks less than what we charge them, is it really worth the extra hassle? Furthermore, our wholesaler provides us with embroidery of the school name, for the premium uniforms, at no extra cost.

    If the uniform turns out to be defective (any of you who have recently used Tokaido uniforms in the past can attest to this), then we'll send them back to our dealer at no cost to the student. On the other hand, the student who bought the uniform on his own is probably going to have to pay return shipping.

    The same holds true for students who want to buy kobudo (weapons training) equipment. They can roll the dice, and order a bo from your typical Century catalog, and could very well run the risk of getting a warped / cracked one (it's happened before, and it will happen again). Or, they can spend a few more dollars, and we'll make sure that they get one that isn't cracked or warped, since we can ship them back to our wholesaler at no cost to us.

    Those of you who have had the misfortune of having to ship a bo, know how much oversized shipping can be.

    In the end, if the student buys from us, then everyone ends up happier. The student can be at ease, knowing that he's not going to be stuck with defective and / or inferior quality products, and that if he does get a bad one, it won't cost him anything to exchange. The student can also be happy, knowing that it only costs a wee bit above retail prices (and after you factor in shipping from those mail order places, the difference becomes even smaller). We're happy, since the student's purchase has added more bulk to our wholesale purchasing power, and the wholesaler is happy, because we're buying more from him.

    Again, if someone does want to buy things on their own, then they're not forbidden from doing so. It's just that it would be much more convenient for everyone, if they bought through us.
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