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  1. Iscariot is offline

    I decided I'd have a pretty avatar for a while.

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    Posted On:
    8/01/2007 9:00am


     Style: Student Jutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Right, I've just come across this clusterfuck. I've had no previous knowledge or interest in this topic. Now I do as it's causing massive thread drift on the forums.

    I have to go out now but will go through all available material this evening. If someone could link all relevant threads/sites/stories then I'd appreciate it.

    The user known as 'bigstatue' may look at the following threads and see my conduct in the face of such controversy in the past and decide if he wishes to participate:
    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=57210&
    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=50602&
    "Listen to Iscariot you Vicchysoise ninja-fuckers!" - kohadril
    "Are you going to rise to godhood out of the ashes of Earth? " - frumpleswift
    "I'll pray for you Iscariot." - Mas
    "Iscariot, check your pulse and report back. We need to know if you are in fact, not alive." - Lu Tzu
    "Iscariot is victorious!" - Dai Tenshi
    "More God delusions." - DAYoung
    "Iscariot, despite our obvious doctrinal differences, I salute your exquisite bastardry, and take back half of all the bad things I ever said about you." - Zendetta
  2. Rock Ape is offline
    Rock Ape's Avatar

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    Posted On:
    8/01/2007 10:35am

    staff
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ok mate you asked for it lol..

    My investigation which concluded that K. O'Connor was a benefit cheat - who pleaded his total innocence only later to change his plea at the 11th hour to "guilty" and; also with regard to Les McClean who claimed to be the holder of an Aikikai 7th dan issued to him in 2000. I contacted the Yudansha Secretary who confirmed that the Aikikai has no record of either a Les/Leslie Hart or Les/Leslie McClean as being a holder of ANY grade from the Aikikai. Both individuals were members of the Bushi Karate-jutsu Association.

    O'Connor being the founder and chairman; McClean being the technical director for aikido (at the time)

    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...=Karate+kidder

    and the followup

    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...=Karate+kidder

    Here is the thread posted in the News section of this website (not started by me)

    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...=Karate+kidder

    Here's O'connor's own website cached http://web.archive.org/web/200602062...rum/portal.php

    Read his own words at the very bottom of the page regarding his trial.

    And of course this thread which your in now.
    Last edited by Rock Ape; 8/01/2007 3:45pm at .
  3. Iscariot is offline

    I decided I'd have a pretty avatar for a while.

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    Posted On:
    8/01/2007 5:41pm


     Style: Student Jutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Right, I have spent the last three hours or so reading everything on this, Bullshido threads, organisation sites, internet archives, newspaper stories and (heaven help me) MAP posts.

    I will now organise my findings on this matter.

    Firstly I only became involved in this as it turned a two page thread on grading into a six page clusterfuck. That was my only concern when I took up this waste of a perfectly good evening that could have been better spent drinking with redheads. I asked in an open post for relevant links, they were provided by user Ivor Biggun. The user bigstatue has evidently declined to provide me with what he believes to be relevant reading.

    It is evident to me that the user bigstatue has connections to the Leslie Hart/Leslie McLean and Kevin O'Connor.

    Looking at bigstatue's posting history on this site, all 23 posts, he makes numerous references to these men. He disputes the findings of Ivor Biggun made during research into the history of Aikido in the UK, yet has not provided any counter evidence.

    Bigstatue's first post came in a Trollshido thread with the subject of 'The Best Teacher You'd Ever Had'. The post can be found here: http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...1&postcount=39
    You will notice the sub-heading added by the poster that reads "best teacher ever". Ivor Biggun and user sochin101 responded to the post by mentioning O'Connor's conviction for fraud. Bigstatue did not post again in this thread.

    Bigstatue also posted in a thread requesting advice for schools in New York. His recommendation was noted by the original poster. It was his only post on the thread and none of this drama spilled over there.

    The other two threads were this one, and a news post concerning O'Connor's court case. In both cases bigstatue brought up O'Connor and proceeded to offer unsubstantiated evidence. When challenged by Ivor Biggun he neglected to rebuke the salient points and instead tried to assassinate Ivor Biggun's credibility. This poster demonstrated a notorious lack of reading comprehension, as is evidenced here: http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...1&postcount=38
    Quote Originally Posted by bigstatue
    funny, we were talking technique and standards of time served here? once again you move off constructive to destructive..... this has nothing to do with the posts on this thread. Indeed mr o'connor did not crop up in THIS conversation.

    Yet earlier in the thread one of bigstatue's posts reads: http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...4&postcount=24
    Quote Originally Posted by bigstatue
    I thought a black belt denoted time served and skill level? only after 5th dan (the master grades, shihans, red and white belts) are they awarded on knowledge and commitment to the art. Hanshi K O'Connor combined karate kicks, punches and blocks with jujitsu locks, throws, chokes, strangles etc. they worked because he used aikido principals of movement to avoid, get inside, or accept rather than rejecting an attack.
    Ivor Biggun had not posted in this thread before bigstatue did. The first reference to O'Connor in this thread came from bigstatue.

    Bigstatue also claimed that individuals known as Gerry Gyngell and Henry Ellis had made certain remarks about Ivor Biggun. Ivor Biggun then posted that he was in contact with both individuals and they had not said what had been reported. A poster claiming to be Gerry Gyngell posted and confirmed Ivor Biggun's version, and Ivor Biggun later posted what was claimed to be a relayed message from Henry Ellis also disproving what bigstatue alleged. If it is called for by either Bullshido members or bigstatue then I will contact these individuals myself to confirm that it is indeed them who posted, but I see no need to bother them at this point.

    Bigstatue seemed very concerned with knowing about Ivor Biggun, his grades etc: http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...6&postcount=14
    Quote Originally Posted by bigstatue
    oh! how tuff people are from the end of Cyber space. thats what sad about these threads they allow sadasses to act tuff......
    I read your threads. YOU have a personal problem with these BKJA guys and whatever you say. you've shown your hand as an individual and others have picked up on it. a disgrace to martial arts, you have defeated yourself
    What grade are you?
    where is YOUR history?
    How do you find time to train , if your so into your snooping?
    No B/S here You just dont want to know the truth. a parasite sucking off those who have achieved in there lives. finding literary fame talking and undermining others thats sssooooo sad.
    i for one will ignore you. I hope other serious martial artists do the same.
    Oh!
    and your so up to date... O'connor is out
    check the sentinel paper from yesterday. facts wrong again... see what i mean guys.
    Oh! You can slag me off now too , cos I certainly won't lower my self back into your cesspool.
    serious martial arts discussions HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA..I just wet myself.
    Bigstatue seemed to miss the open link on every post of Ivor Biggun's that led to his dojo review. The last time I checked this link it gave Ivor Biggun's dojo website which contains a full list of his grades. At no time did bigstatue offer his own grades or standing. The nearest came in the New York thread: http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...5&postcount=27
    Quote Originally Posted by bigstatue
    I run a school in England. have done for 30 years.
    Bigstatue denied when asked directly that he was O'Connor.

    I will not comment on the investigation conducted by Ivor Biggun or the things that occurred to me whilst reading the report, that is not the purpose of this summary.

    After looking at all the relevant data I can only conclude that the user bigstatue does not like certain facts repeating. However he at no point offers evidence to the contrary, therefore the basic facts established by Ivor Biggun's investigation stand until proven otherwise. Those are:
    1. O'Connor was found guilty in a court of law of fraud. He was sentenced to a custodial sentence.
    2. Hart/McLean does not hold a grade from the Aikikai organisation and does not represent them.

    As both of these points are important information for any current or future students of this pair, I believe it falls within the remit and primary mission of Bullshido, that these facts be brought to the attention of anyone viewing here and that by the posting of that information by Ivor Biggun and sochin101 was entirely justified.

    At no point has user bigstatue refuted these two points, he has proceeded to obsfucate the issue by endlessly posting attacks on Ivor Biggun and unsourced information on the prosecution of O'Connor.

    I invite user bigstatue to comment on these two points (the ones numbered '1' and '2', concerning the guilty verdict and Aikikai grade) without reference to anything else.
    "Listen to Iscariot you Vicchysoise ninja-fuckers!" - kohadril
    "Are you going to rise to godhood out of the ashes of Earth? " - frumpleswift
    "I'll pray for you Iscariot." - Mas
    "Iscariot, check your pulse and report back. We need to know if you are in fact, not alive." - Lu Tzu
    "Iscariot is victorious!" - Dai Tenshi
    "More God delusions." - DAYoung
    "Iscariot, despite our obvious doctrinal differences, I salute your exquisite bastardry, and take back half of all the bad things I ever said about you." - Zendetta
  4. Rock Ape is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/02/2007 4:30am

    staff
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hi Mate.

    I do invite you to contact Henry Ellis Gerry Gynell and the aikikai yudansha Secretary Mr. Tani in Shinjuku-ku Tokyo.

    The relevant emails are as follows:

    Henry Ellis : ellisaikido@ntlworld.com

    Gerry Gynell : gerrard.gyngell@btinternet.com

    Yudansha Secretary : aikido@aikikai.or.jp (English language acceptable)

    Just for clarification here is the reply I got from Mr. Tani:

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "aikido@aikikai.or.jp"
    To: "Dave Humm"
    Sent: October 25, 2005 11:56 AM
    Subject: Re: Yudansha Enquiry

    Dear Sir,

    Les McLean (Les Hart) is not registered at Aikikai - Japan as a Dan holder, which means his 7th Dan has not been legitimated by Aikido Doshu.

    He is not representative of the Aikikai-Japan. There is no Aikikai Europe. Aikikai-Japan has no representative no matter where it is.

    Hope the information above will help you.

    Sincerely,

    M. Tani
    International Department
    Hombu Dojo
    Aikido World Headquarters


    I have nothing to hide in this investigation which was prompted purely by the information which both O'Connor and McLean aka Hart gave me, all dialogue is posted in the write-up on this site.

    I would also again like to state that from the content of posts from both users "BigStatue" (Real Identity unknown) and "Doshu" (Identity Kevin O'Connor) I am fairly convinced that they are one and the same.

    Several aspects of posts made by Bigstatue recently read very similarly to those made by Kevin O'Connor under the alias of "Doshu". Superficially the posts from both users look almost identical in terms of how they are presented, how they read in terms of grammar and often data such as people and places are apparently well known to both users.

    My interaction with Kevin O'Connor through his own website illustrated that he was unable to hold a dialogue without resorting to an aggressive tone, indeed one of the BKJA members at the time using the alias "Lunchy" openly commented that I had been ill-treated as a visitor to their association's website. I have that person's email address and he can be contacted if required.

    I think it is also important for me to publicly state that I know that Mr. Mclean is very ill, I have no desires to further this illness by causing stress or upset to this person. I made my findings on the aikikai grade issue known to him directly BEFORE he was taken ill. As far as I'm concerned this matter is concluded unless someone can present evidence that the information provided by the aikikai themselves is incorrect, remembering of course that the grade which Mr. Mclean claims was supposedly issued to him only seven yeas ago.
    Last edited by Rock Ape; 8/02/2007 5:10am at .
  5. Iscariot is offline

    I decided I'd have a pretty avatar for a while.

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    Posted On:
    8/02/2007 6:15am


     Style: Student Jutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivor Biggun
    Hi Mate.

    I do invite you to contact Henry Ellis Gerry Gynell and the aikikai yudansha Secretary Mr. Tani in Shinjuku-ku Tokyo.

    The relevant emails are as follows:

    Henry Ellis : ellisaikido@ntlworld.com

    Gerry Gynell : gerrard.gyngell@btinternet.com

    Yudansha Secretary : aikido@aikikai.or.jp (English language acceptable)
    I don't believe there's a need mate.

    Your investigation presented the emails from Mr. Tani very well, and unless there's reasonable doubt I see no reason to bother any of these men further.

    If bigstatue returns and questions the validity of these emails and the communications you've presented then I will take the time to verify the information you have presented.

    I do think you should do write ups for .org, and possibly for .com as well. It'd be worth contact the relevant site directors about this, presenting the same threads you did to me and seeing what they think.
    "Listen to Iscariot you Vicchysoise ninja-fuckers!" - kohadril
    "Are you going to rise to godhood out of the ashes of Earth? " - frumpleswift
    "I'll pray for you Iscariot." - Mas
    "Iscariot, check your pulse and report back. We need to know if you are in fact, not alive." - Lu Tzu
    "Iscariot is victorious!" - Dai Tenshi
    "More God delusions." - DAYoung
    "Iscariot, despite our obvious doctrinal differences, I salute your exquisite bastardry, and take back half of all the bad things I ever said about you." - Zendetta
  6. Rock Ape is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/02/2007 6:42am

    staff
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Iscariot
    I don't believe there's a need mate.

    Your investigation presented the emails from Mr. Tani very well, and unless there's reasonable doubt I see no reason to bother any of these men further.

    If bigstatue returns and questions the validity of these emails and the communications you've presented then I will take the time to verify the information you have presented.

    I do think you should do write ups for .org, and possibly for .com as well. It'd be worth contact the relevant site directors about this, presenting the same threads you did to me and seeing what they think.
    Okis mate no problems, you have the information at hand if required. I know that both Henry and Gerry do cast their eyes over the forums from time to time anyway.

    I have presented the three write-ups I've done to the admins at the time they were completed but, if I'm honest I have no desires to do that sort of work on a regular basis. Truth be known I was only talking to Sochin yesterday about a similar matter and I don't have any plans to research or investigate anyone else although one never knows. lol
  7. Black 6 is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/02/2007 7:42am


     Style: Taijutsu, Army Combatives

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Wow, I leave for two days, and there's a major thread jack. It's unfortunate, since the earlier threads were a pretty good discussion. Would a mod like to close this thing, since I'm sure that a dedicated thread on the other issues would serve a better purpose?
  8. Rock Ape is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/02/2007 7:47am

    staff
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hi mate.

    Accept my apologies as I was to blame for the major thread drift however, with the inclusion of Kevin O'Connor's name here by BidStatue (and other posts in other threads of the same ilk) it was important to take the matter of O'Connor's benefit fraud conviction and bring it to the forefront of the thread.

    BigStatue refused to contribute within the dedicated thread I started on the subject thus, to make the point, I had no option but to bring it to wherever he posted O'Connor's name.
  9. patfromlogan is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/02/2007 8:07pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kyokushinkai / Kajukenbo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    http://www.nashvillescene.com/Storie...er/index.shtml
    Chris Garland?? Karate Kidder googled and this was #1
    "Preparing mentally, the most important thing is, if you aren't doing it for the love of it, then don't do it." - Benny Urquidez
  10. Rock Ape is offline
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    Watch and Shoot !

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    Posted On:
    8/03/2007 6:22am

    staff
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by patfromlogan
    http://www.nashvillescene.com/Storie...er/index.shtml
    Chris Garland?? Karate Kidder googled and this was #1
    Different fraud of the same article name
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