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  1. Gypsy Jazz is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/29/2007 8:11am


     Style: Does exercise count?

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Equipoise
    Yes. Or post for that matter. Stretching post exercise is dumb as well. The muscles have been forced to contract so forcing them to stretch is a bad idea.
    I've always heard to stretch post-workout, and have just about always done so. When I wait an hour or more to stretch I get extremely sore and tight for the next day or two (assuming a good workout). It feels almost as if I haven't stretched at all. I pretty much eliminate soreness, or greatly nullify the effect provided I stretch directly after the workout.

    Could you please explain why stretching post exercise is dumb as well? When/how do you advocate stretching be done? This is a bit of a derail, so if you want to reply via PM or in another thread, please by all means go ahead.
  2. ThaiMantis is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/29/2007 8:49am


     Style: MuayThai & SPM

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Equipoise
    Yes. Or post for that matter. Stretching post exercise is dumb as well. The muscles have been forced to contract so forcing them to stretch is a bad idea.
    interesting theory. dumb you say? :) massive sweeping generalisation perhaps? possibly also untrue I would suggest.

    may I ask who taught you this exactly?
  3. spirez is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/29/2007 9:58am


     Style: BJJ/no-gi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The problem with this industry is that there are so many varying opinions and contradicting studies that it can become hard to know what to believe. A lot of it is trial an error in my opinion as everyone is individual.

    However i've always learned that you shouldn't go from finishing a workout directly into a static stretching routine. I've seen suggestions that say to wait an hour or two and others that state you need to warm down and return the heart to it's resting rate before stretching, although the muscles should still be warm.

    I'm looking for some studies now
  4. Equipoise is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/29/2007 8:58pm

    supporting member
     Style: Chemical Assistance

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ThaiMantis
    interesting theory. dumb you say? :) massive sweeping generalisation perhaps? possibly also untrue I would suggest.

    may I ask who taught you this exactly?
    http://www.defrancostraining.com/art...ing-round2.htm
    http://www.train4thegame.com/gameon/...g_twoadays.pdf
    http://www.bodyessence.ca/Pages/Main/stretching2.htm

    Some of the many.

    Not a sweeping generalization. It makes perfect physiological sense.

    Stretching (static) promotes hypoxia among other things and causes muscles to be "limber" and loose. This looseness does not induce contractile strength. It does the exact opposite. So one who is strength training is reducing the effectiveness of their routine as well as possibly fostering injury due to this loss of contractile strength. The loss is anywhere from 17% and greater in contractile strength.

    Now forcing a static stretch while a muscle is swollen and in a state of contraction due to a period of intense exercise, etc can lead to a pulled muscle (IE what happened to numbnuts after I told him NOT to stretch until before he went to sleep), torn muscle, etc. One should stretch a number of hours after exercise to allow the muscles their stretching to return to a normal state.

    Quote Originally Posted by spirez
    The problem with this industry is that there are so many varying opinions and contradicting studies that it can become hard to know what to believe. A lot of it is trial an error in my opinion as everyone is individual.

    However i've always learned that you shouldn't go from finishing a workout directly into a static stretching routine. I've seen suggestions that say to wait an hour or two and others that state you need to warm down and return the heart to it's resting rate before stretching, although the muscles should still be warm.

    I'm looking for some studies now
    Regarding this, it's not so much that studies conflict, it's that studies are misinterpreted or chopped to pieces/inflated by marketing schemes. Take a look at GNC. It's the Micheal Moore of the supplement world.
    Last edited by Equipoise; 7/29/2007 9:05pm at .
  5. spirez is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/30/2007 10:45am


     Style: BJJ/no-gi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Interesting snippet about pre-workout stretching from the firts part of that article on defranco's.

    Dynamic stretching before weight training will temporarily increase strength. This form of stretching is used to rev up the nervous system so I can't completely agree with the original statement that stretching before weight training will make you weaker.

    As mentioned above, PNF stretching (particularly the CRAC method) will liberate the greatest ROM. Let me remind you that PNF or dynamic stretching is useful for warm-ups since the lingering discharge (facilitation) from the contraction phase of a PNF or dynamic stretch counters the effects of any reduced stiffness
    I knew about dynamic stretching but wasnt aware that PNF could also be beneficial before a workout.

    Thanks for that DeFranco's link, some good stuff in there.
  6. Equipoise is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/30/2007 11:46am

    supporting member
     Style: Chemical Assistance

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm a big fan of dynamic stretching.. IE a warm up.
  7. Quikfeet509 is offline

    Acupuncturist / Anesthesia Student

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    Posted On:
    8/01/2007 8:13pm


     Style: Mostly weights now...

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Part Deux - Qualifications are not all equal.


    ACSM / CSIS =/= 24 hour fitness certification
  8. spirez is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/02/2007 3:34am


     Style: BJJ/no-gi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I thought ACSM was supposed to be a good qualification in the US?

    Which are the best to do in the US as a friend of mine is interested and wants to know who to go with.
  9. Black 6 is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/02/2007 8:04am


     Style: Taijutsu, Army Combatives

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm actually trying to work on my Personal Trainer Certification (through ACE), so this is helpful in the idea of finding a personal trainer to shadow as I learn. I wonder if we could get a "Certified Personal Trainer" tag for members. Actually, we would need two. One for persons who are just certified, meaning they are up on theory and studies, and another for those who actually work as personal trainers, and therefor have anecdotes and real examples to pull from.
  10. Quikfeet509 is offline

    Acupuncturist / Anesthesia Student

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    Posted On:
    8/02/2007 2:19pm


     Style: Mostly weights now...

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by spirez
    I thought ACSM was supposed to be a good qualification in the US?

    Which are the best to do in the US as a friend of mine is interested and wants to know who to go with.

    It is. What I was trying to explain is that certifications that require a bachelor's degree to sit for, like the CSIS or ACSM, are much different than the "in-gym" certification that most chains have now. Granted, I've met a few excellent trainers that had BS gym certs, but they are few and far between.


    What most gym-cert trainers know is how to sell overpriced supplements and keep you coming back to workout with them.
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