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  1. Bolverk is offline

    Ex-ATA and Proud of it.

    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Chicken Town
    Posts
    910

    Posted On:
    10/02/2007 6:02pm


     Style: Jeet Kune Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Wow, kind of looks like ATA Martial Arts sparring to me. To busy teaching life skills to teach martial arts I guess.

    What do you think Master Goins???
    Knowing it is not enough, we must apply.
    Willing is not enough, we must do.

    Never approach a Bull from the front, a Horse from the rear, or a Fool from any direction!

    He who dares not offend cannot be honest. -- Thomas Payne
  2. saman is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    242

    Posted On:
    10/03/2007 8:35am


     Style: TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Self-defence, ckd style is an illusion (for the "believers', a delusion!) I guess, if you go on YouTube, or go back to links on this thread, you will see for yourself the slow, pitiful examples in some ckd black belt tests. the guy you quoted who talked about his sparring experience was a LONG time ago! Now days, little/no contact (we are told to tell students that this is because their punches and kicks are SO powerful now that it could cause death/brutal punishment to sparring partner etc. OH PLEASE!) The truth is that ckd students learn no control for punching or kicking because choi tells people that control requires pulling kicks/punches and other nonsense. choi was ITF and OLD ITF at that. he claims to have kept up, but it is bullshit. his so-called consultations with "doctors" amounted to a couple of hours talking to a couple of chiropractors. His widely proclaimed research proof is un-replicated (a requirement for scientific research, right?) old, flawed and skewed. the tkd practitioners did not perform a comparable punch! Maybe they were old ITF, too. A WTF black belt would have performed a straight punch and also used their hips and sequential motion etc. The lies abound and the leadership is dishonest. It is all about $$$ and that is why so many of us chief instructors/school owners have left. Check out Master Roger Koo's website at ksdi.net or, to see 20+ choi school owners who have recently left the ckd organisation in disgust, go to http://www.choikwangdo-fl.com and look at their locations list. The Elrods were very loyal school owners who worked hard to build up the number of ckd schools in their area of Florida (USA) and finally became fed up with the nonsense from ckdmai.
    Last edited by saman; 10/03/2007 8:38am at .
  3. roscopeeco is offline

    Featherweight

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    83

    Posted On:
    10/03/2007 9:38am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: CKD, BJJ White

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    @saman
    you may well have a number of valid points but what you fail to mention is that a lot of the instructors that have left Choi still use the same techniques and execution methods in their syllabuses (apart from Roger Koo).

    They may have left because of disillusionment with the Organisation and all of its shenanigans but they are happy with the strength of the core striking system or they would not continue to use those techniques.


    I also have to pick you up of the too deadly to spar bullshit that you espoused. I have never been told by any instructor that that is the reason there is no 'traditional' sparring.
  4. roscopeeco is offline

    Featherweight

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    Feb 2007
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    83

    Posted On:
    10/03/2007 9:52am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: CKD, BJJ White

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    @saman
    you also mention that students learn no control for punching

    we are taught to punch either with speed or with full power on shields with as many different techniques as possible...the idea is that if you do actually engage in a street fight you want to get as many techniques out there as quickly as possible ...hopefully with the outcome that it will overwhelm your opponent and the fight will end...BUT your in a street fight so there are no guarantees on anything.

    Why would you want to control your punching in a street fight? You want to go hell for leather with whatever tools you've got.

    There is a student in my class whose technique is absolutely stinking but who has a lot of power...when he comes at you he looks out of control...at the end of the day we are talking about self defence so if it doesn't look pretty who gives a toss...if it looks out of control and scary all the better
  5. El Neko is offline
    El Neko's Avatar

    "Yes Neko, please keep telling me more about your manly collection of Star Wars audiobooks"

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Boca Raton
    Posts
    1,194

    Posted On:
    10/03/2007 10:05am

    supporting member
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The problem with that line of thinking is, what happens when you find a competent striker going against you?
    Quote Originally Posted by Phrost View Post
    Yeah, you're probably right.

    But still, something about having a black guy or a lesbian jump out from behind a garbage can yelling "SURPRISE GONG SAU" at any of your big-named RBSD kooks makes me giggle like a little girl.
    Quote Originally Posted by Phrost
    There are two kinds of members on MAP:

    1. LARPers/Partial Artists
    2. People who haven't heard about Bullshido.
    The Mighty McClaw to Fox when refusing to fight AnnaT.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheMightyMcClaw
    Don't fight girls? When are you living, the 1850's? I suppose you think they shouldn't work or vote either.
    Get with the times and punch a chick.
    Wingchundo's response after I called him a "*****"

    Quote Originally Posted by wingchundo View Post
    Hey, I resemble that remark!

    Ok, time for a snappy comeback.... uh...

    OK. Here goes.

    You are what you eat!
  6. Bolverk is offline

    Ex-ATA and Proud of it.

    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Chicken Town
    Posts
    910

    Posted On:
    10/03/2007 10:27am


     Style: Jeet Kune Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by roscopeeco
    @saman
    you also mention that students learn no control for punching

    we are taught to punch either with speed or with full power on shields with as many different techniques as possible...the idea is that if you do actually engage in a street fight you want to get as many techniques out there as quickly as possible ...hopefully with the outcome that it will overwhelm your opponent and the fight will end...BUT your in a street fight so there are no guarantees on anything.

    Why would you want to control your punching in a street fight? You want to go hell for leather with whatever tools you've got.

    There is a student in my class whose technique is absolutely stinking but who has a lot of power...when he comes at you he looks out of control...at the end of the day we are talking about self defence so if it doesn't look pretty who gives a toss...if it looks out of control and scary all the better
    Control in punching has nothing to do with how hard you hit. Control in punching has to do with hitting the target. You can punch sheilds all day long and not learn control. Not to mention that sheilds never hit back and they do not move like people.

    Why do you want control in your punching in a street fight? So when that small opening presents itself, you can strike it without missing. I would love to spar one of these guys, just to see what they really have.
    Knowing it is not enough, we must apply.
    Willing is not enough, we must do.

    Never approach a Bull from the front, a Horse from the rear, or a Fool from any direction!

    He who dares not offend cannot be honest. -- Thomas Payne
  7. roscopeeco is offline

    Featherweight

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    83

    Posted On:
    10/03/2007 10:31am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: CKD, BJJ White

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    @El Neko
    well we train blocking, bobbing, weaving and angling off in our defence drills for what it's worth BUT we've never been told that that is going to make us invinsible...quite the opposite in fact.

    If you find yourself against a competent striker the you are more than likely going to get clocked aren't you? Bit of a non question really. I've always been told in classes that if I do get into a fight that it is going to hurt...how is that delusional?
  8. roscopeeco is offline

    Featherweight

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    83

    Posted On:
    10/03/2007 10:34am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: CKD, BJJ White

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    @Bolverk
    Yes we are taught to punch accurately and from the correct distance to achieve power for what its worth
  9. roscopeeco is offline

    Featherweight

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    83

    Posted On:
    10/03/2007 10:38am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: CKD, BJJ White

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    @Bolverk
    We train defence drills where you use techniques against a training partner.

    Are you saying that the use of shields is a worthless drill? Because if you are then you are full of ****
  10. WingChun Lawyer is offline
    WingChun Lawyer's Avatar

    Modesty forbids more.

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    Dec 2003
    Location
    São Paulo, Brazil
    Posts
    5,426

    Posted On:
    10/03/2007 11:00am

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai, BJJ newbie.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Shields donīt bob and weave, they donīt block, and they donīt punch or kick back.

    Timing, resistance to pain and shock, and determination are only three of the many skills that can only be learned by sparring. HARD sparring.

    Incidentally, hitting pads is useless if you donīt also spar regularly. The skills do not translate perfectly from pad to foe, you need sparring to adapt.
    That civilisation may not sink,
    Its great battle lost,
    Quiet the dog, tether the pony
    To a distant post;
    Our master Caesar is in the tent
    Where the maps are spread,
    His eyes fixed upon nothing,
    A hand under his head.


    - W.B. Yeats
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