Posted On:3/21/2010 3:00pm
Taekwon-Do has only 6 Belts with stripes in between - White, WY, Yellow, YG, Green, GB, Blue, BR, Red, RB, and Black 1st to 9th degree.
In the olden days Tae Kwon Do (that was howTKD was spelt back then) only has White, Blue, Black then it goes to White, Blue, Brown, Black then it changed to the current one above in the late 70s.
CKD founded by an ex TKD practitioner increased the belts to 18. Smells of modern day Tae Kwon-Dough($$$)
Posted On:3/21/2010 6:34pm
Style: Choi Kwang-Do
Originally Posted by Dempsey1
When I started training in 1987 they taught the very first Pil-Sung patterns at Red Belt... think it was called Pil-Sung IL Jung... you now do 4 directional patterns until 2nd Degree Black Belt. That SAME pattern is now the 2nd Degree Pattern, however it has now been modified (a few years ago) with a couple more double front kicks and dodges added...
It was the brown 2 black tag pattern when I started in Choi 19 years ago. Then it got put as the il dan pattern and eventually was a 2nd dan pattern when the patterns that included the newer kicks were introduced. But that's the only thing that changed from red (brown 2 black stripes in my experience) to second dan. I hardly call that watering the syllabus down considering all the things that were taken from the higher dan patterns and placed in the colour belt syllabus.
Posted On:3/21/2010 9:30pm
Originally Posted by amiller127
It was the brown 2 black tag pattern when I started in Choi 19 years ago.
19 years is a long time with an organization and I understand your need to defend. If you earned your rank under the old system, I assume you are a good martial artist. Back when I was involved with ckd, there was only a handful of people that were actually talented in the art. Perhaps you are one of them.
Hopefully your experience will stay good with the organization amiller... However, from experience, if you are a full time professional school owner someday you will see the truth.
Posted On:3/22/2010 6:18am
I've done Isshinryu, Kenpo, Capoeira, Aikido, Wushu, TKD, and seminars in a dozen other things. They had lots of belts, katas, named self-defense techniques, weapons, pressure points, and nifty punches and kicks. Classes varied wildly from sparring to endless cardio stations to the ke?po Circle of Death to grueling horse-stance sessons to "ninja" randori when the instructor forgot to pay the electric bill a couple of times. The time would have been better spent jogging.
My current dojo has 5 belts before black. We have 8 punches, 4 kicks, 3 blocks, and 2 kata. Every class after yellow belt is the same as every other. We have no problem keeping students and don't have contracts. I'd have PMed you that if you had 50 posts or a supporting membership.
If you're selling people substance, they'll buy. If you need a thousand and one tricks to keep them coming in, maybe you're not doing the above.
Posted On:3/22/2010 10:32am
TKD has 10 kups before blackbelt, Judo has 6 kyu grades before black, karate generally has 8-10, some muay thai clubs have coloured armbands as grades, so there is a lot of use in martial arts. Having a few belts is not a problem in of itself. It depends how much the organisation charges per grading, what each grade requires you to know and how well standards are maintained within the organisation.
Judo was the first martial art to introduce the kyu system that was later adopted by funakoshi, founder of shotokan karate. Judo was designed as an art/sport to be used in the education system of japan as Jigoro Kano was a teacher. Judo ranks were very well tested before a few years ago, you had to pass a technical grading demonstrating knowledge of required technique and then a competition element where you had to win a certain amount of fights to grade. This could be a little unfair if they mismatched you but then gradings in judo are very cheap and the technical element is done within class at no charge. Recently changes have meant a greater focus on technical elements to ensure judoka have a greater range of technical knowledge beyond just competition techniques. The idea being to increase the technical ability of judoka and thus improve competition as previously you could get by with a limited number of techniques.
Other traditional arts such as TKD, karate, have a pattern to learn at each grade along with different techniques for sparring, self defence and traditional moves. In this respect CKD is the same perhaps minus the "traditional" moves.
However all these arts particularly TKD/CKD can have Mcdojoism within their numbers. Basically where money comes before the art. Judo has managed to have a lot less politics than most arts and thus is more centralised generally under one organisation within each country.
CKD's reason for extending the amount of belts from a already unusual 12 to 18 are weak and I would argue are more motivated by making money. My argument for this is 2 fold, one on the number of techniques one needs to learn and the other on the general amount of time people spend practising an art.
Considering as an art CKD lacks a developed trapping, throwing and ground game and focuses more on striking and blocking 18 grades seems ridiculous. Strikers such as boxers and Thai boxers can testify that striking is a very quick game that relies far more on speed, timing and positioning than on the number of techniques, hence they spend most of their time conditioning and on fitness work along with repetition of basic techniques. Equally although some thai clubs have grades, they don't really reflect the fighting ability of the student more the knowledge and I emphasis SOME clubs as alot don't use grades. JUDO has a lot of technical elements as many as 50 throws and at least 30 groundwork techniques yet they fit this into less than 10 grades.
The second part of my argument is to do with money. MOST people who practice martial arts don't stay till blackbelt, they reach a certain grade and then drift off. Those that reach blackbelt equally often lose interest. So WHY increase the number of lower grades. By increasing the amount of steps before reaching blackbelt you increase the amount of revenue from each student even if they don't stay till blackbelt.
Equally most martial arts do not claim to be the ULTIMATE in self defence
Posted On:10/06/2010 9:13am
Style: mixed martial arts
firstly, i have read most of the threads talking about this art, which has opened my eyes a little into the politics, which i would have to say i agree with, with attending various seminars towards this martial art i would agree that most of the 'chief' instructors in this art are laim, self indulgant and generally boast about how much their schools make. and yet you look at their students and with most of the comments you have made about this art, i would say that i would agree on what you say. even to the very first post i was looking at the magazine cover depicting the guy (who has now branched off from ckd and made a fool of himself) was in the wrong stance altogether.
the thing about ckd is that it is an ever changing martial art. which means when GM Choi trains and decides that this move does not work effieciently as proposed to then he changes it to a way he feels is beneficial for the user, but also keeps instructors on their toes to make sure they teach the art properly. however, this automatically fails due to most instructor being incredibly useless in what they do and think that they are in a blue suit because they are awesome. i know this for a fact as i have seen this at many seminars, and with me being an instructor myself was disgusted at the amount of them just standing around doing nothing. ok, they are students at the same time. but being an instructor means the 'students' are the main priority. so watching them stand around doing sweet FA while me and my team were helping out greatly showed how some cheif instructors run their schools.
towards effectiveness, this martial arts is as equal as them all when used in a different way, hence why i am not about to jepordise myself or my school by revealing names. we use semi-contact sparring in our drills. purely because we KNOW that no contact seemingly fails to people who would actually endanger themselves to fight. but in the same time, how many of you have been so pissed off due to the fact you've lost in a competition under false pretenses??? i know i have, i studied another art that said i lost because i happened to pwn a black belt when i was a blue. kinda shows how childish people are when their 'black belt' students are getting whipped by a lower belt rank, but finding out id lost sent me into such a rage.....i also take mma classes, as my competitive side is definatly out-weighing my judgement on sticking with the belief of this art. as being an instructor i hardly get time to practise in the dojang, purely as i am teaching students to even taking the whole class under the chief instructors supervision. but in this mma class, ive noticed that my techniques are quite similar to those use in muay-thai and other martial arts. maybe it is just me, but as i trained with a muay-thai british champion, who then asked wether i studied it (to which i have not) gives me to think that maybe it is actually certain schools that cause this knock on negative effect of this martial art.
For price wise, i agree that it is rediculously expensive, but to the extent of that most instructors charge to make money themselves. with my school, it is a non profit organization (to back this, i personally know the cheif instructor, as he was a witness of my birth) to which every penny that goes into the school comes straight back out of it towards new equipment, doboks (which 1st one is free to people who join, standard procedure) room rentals etc. for the fact we have a class every day in over 4 different locations including L.A fitness aswell which isnt really the cheapest of facilities either.
again, i believe this martial art is being slanted down to the point of seeing certian school owners showing their amazing but failure martial art classes with the money they make. there is a teacher who earns purely from choi nearly £250,000 a year, and to be honest. seeing him teach the techniques. wouldn't join his class, which makes you think how does he do it??
our instructor team tries to differ our classes every week, even holding masterclasses at the end of the week specialising in different areas (hands, legs, defence drill, close quarter combat - yes we do that also) which seems effective and even using exercise techniques such as natural body strength trainiing and also P.A.C.E training. we even add our own ones in we may have learnt from other martial arts also. maybe that is the point? and yet not so, i train with a 2nd dan who has never done any other martial art. who could kick a lo0t of people to the ground by just flicking his leg, even after having 2 knee operations and a back operation, he pushes himself further then what he feels is his limit, and sparring against him is actually a really good experience. but again maybe it is because i have studied a few martial arts that i have learnt the contact side of it enough to be able to understand how to defend myself in a different way to how choi teaches. i do see that the deflections and attacks they use are effective, but only going when you test them out not just on a shield/focus mitt (to someones earlier comment).
so to finish my rant, in my opinion, this art is the same as every other one. different in so many ways but still down to how the chief instructor is brought up to believe in it. if it is purely for the art, you will an amazing experience out of it (as i believe i do) and yet towards money it seems as though the students are over confident in their abilities and act like pure fools who wouldnt last a minute.
to end on, half the videos you've posted are actually an embarrasment in my opinion. because the amount of times i said on those techniques 'wrong' was unreal......
Posted On:9/05/2011 1:53pm
Style: Cross Train
Seeing that you train in BJJ I would have thought you spend time training with guys that cross train for MMA. You may be a white belt in BJJ however as you know it takes time and hard work to achieve rank in BJJ so I am assuming you know a bit. Please just take the time to attend a couple if Muay Thai classes with one of your training partners at your BJJ class (every BJJ class has Muay Thai guys training there) and see what you think. Take it from a former CKD black belt you thoughts about CKD will change if you keep an open mind. Do not be delusioned by the ''bullshido'' your CKD instructor tells you!
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