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  1. cubs is offline

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    Mar 2010
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    Posted On:
    3/17/2010 8:05pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: mauy thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well as of now the owner of taekwando is only making 2 classes for CKD but what he did was change the old belt system which was 12 belts,white,yellow,orange,lt grn,dk grn,lt blu,dk,blu,purple,brown,red, red/blk then black. now there is 18 belts .Its a damn shame that owners have to try and make a buck to screw the little man and change things that were perfectly fine to something that is horrible now. And it took 44 months to get to a black belt and now with this new system it takes 34 months. How is that possible. You add more belts and it takes less time to get a black belt. What a crock of ****
  2. saman is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/18/2010 5:39am


     Style: TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What a crock of ****

    Oh, Cubs, you bring tears to my eyes - you REALLY do understand!
  3. Dempsey1 is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/20/2010 11:31am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    How well do you know the school owner? If they have a good Tae Kwon Do program it would be a shame to throw it all away.

    Can you convince him/her to keep their old belt system for the other classes and only use the new belt system for the ckd classes?

    International would NOT be a fan of this idea, maybe it will open their eyes a bit...
  4. MrGalt is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/20/2010 11:49am


     Style: Seidokaikan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I am almost beyond words at the idea of eighteen OR twelve belts. What honestly seemed acceptable about the old situation?
  5. Dempsey1 is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/20/2010 9:20pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I actually don't see a problem having a lot of belts between White and Black, although 18 is to many... that is ONLY if you are not charging for testing. Systems that don't have a lot of belt colors usually just have various degrees of that rank.

    What ckd did was take there original belt system which was: White, Yellow, Orange, Green, Blue, Purple, Purple w/Stripe, Red, Red w/Stripe, Brown, Brown w/1 stripe, Brown w/2 stripes, Plain Black (bodan), then 1st Degree Black... and added an additional belt (gold) and also a senior belt in between each rank. Then they watered down the regular material and stretched it way out... example: the original red belt material got bumped up to 2nd degree black belt by the time they were done.

    But lets not forget, if you have $15,000, you can buy a black belt from CKDMAI, become a school owner, and be considered the top of the faculty all in less than a months time :) ... you can skip those 18 belts and go from white to black!!!
  6. amiller127 is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/21/2010 9:26am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Choi Kwang-Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    How did they water down the material? What got bumped from red belt to second dan?

    I don't get how you came up with that. Instead of watering the colour belt system down at that point they actually pulled a load of kicks and punches that were originally taught at the dan levels and made them part of the colour belt syllabus. The heel, downward, crescent and twisting kicks were all 1st to 3rd dan techniques before the new belt system kicked in. The same with a few of the hand techniques. Also the speed drill stopped being a red belt and above thing and came into the syllabus at yellow belt instead. Also the patterns, although similar become more challenging as more movements and dodging were added to them. I really can't think of what was
    moved from red belt to 2nd dan at all.

    I got my bo dan and il dan under the old system. I have to say that I personally found the syllabus change a positive thing as you learned more before you got to black belt in the new system.
  7. MrGalt is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/21/2010 9:33am


     Style: Seidokaikan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dempsey1 View Post
    Systems that don't have a lot of belt colors usually just have various degrees of that rank.

    Uh, yeah, actually, no, that's not true.
  8. Dempsey1 is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/21/2010 9:55am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    When I started training in 1987 they taught the very first Pil-Sung patterns at Red Belt... think it was called Pil-Sung IL Jung... you now do 4 directional patterns until 2nd Degree Black Belt. That SAME pattern is now the 2nd Degree Pattern, however it has now been modified (a few years ago) with a couple more double front kicks and dodges added...

    The speed drills as mentioned by amiller are not challenging at all. Take 2 hand combinations (#1 ft punch, r punch, dodge, r punch) & (ft punch, ft punch, dodge, ft punch, r punch) and change the kick at the end and you have the speed drills from white to black. Add a few spin kicks, more dodges, and a cross over kick at the beginning and you are good to second degree. VERY simple.

    For the belt system I was comparing it to Brazilian Jiu Jitsu ... very few colors and takes a long time to get to Black - however they have 3rd/4th degree white belt & blue .. etc. I think having multiple steps in between the ranks helps hold interest of the student, however 18 colors is being greedy when you are charging 60 for each rank and 300 for black.
  9. MrGalt is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/21/2010 10:03am


     Style: Seidokaikan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dempsey1 View Post
    When I started training in 1987 they taught the very first Pil-Sung patterns at Red Belt... think it was called Pil-Sung IL Jung... you now do 4 directional patterns until 2nd Degree Black Belt. That SAME pattern is now the 2nd Degree Pattern, however it has now been modified (a few years ago) with a couple more double front kicks and dodges added...

    The speed drills as mentioned by amiller are not challenging at all. Take 2 hand combinations (#1 ft punch, r punch, dodge, r punch) & (ft punch, ft punch, dodge, ft punch, r punch) and change the kick at the end and you have the speed drills from white to black. Add a few spin kicks, more dodges, and a cross over kick at the beginning and you are good to second degree. VERY simple.

    For the belt system I was comparing it to Brazilian Jiu Jitsu ... very few colors and takes a long time to get to Black - however they have 3rd/4th degree white belt & blue .. etc. I think having multiple steps in between the ranks helps hold interest of the student, however 18 colors is being greedy when you are charging 60 for each rank and 300 for black.
    BJJ isn't "systems." Degrees of colored belting is a serious red flag for McDojos in general. I've studied a half dozen different things and never actually gone through a system that even had a purple belt.

    Why isn't accruing skill a good way to hold interest for students? Why do they need to buy new pieces of flair at all?

    Sorry, we should take this to YMAS or PM, but 12 belts is ridiculous, and 18 belts is even more so. It's not typical and it's not reasonable. That's all the point I had.
  10. Dempsey1 is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/21/2010 10:22am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MrGalt View Post
    BJJ isn't "systems." I've studied a half dozen different things and never actually gone through a system that even had a purple belt.

    Why isn't accruing skill a good way to hold interest for students? Why do they need to buy new pieces of flair at all?
    I agree with you on this. In my experience teaching, the majority of people need to be rewarded. Unfortunately, acquiring skill is not enough for some people. It is in the interest of the school owner to hold the interest of the student... if they get bored they quit and lose revenue from membership and testing. CKD is a belt factory, no question there.

    Out of curiosity, what have you studied and what was there ranking structure?

    In my experience BJJ has a rank system, along with a purple belt. Most of the instructors I have met also still hold the rank to a higher standard than most other forms of martial arts.
    Last edited by Dempsey1; 3/21/2010 10:49am at .

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