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  1. sheperd is offline

    Featherweight

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    Apr 2008
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    Posted On:
    6/26/2008 3:36pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you do all out sparring at purple belt then you are not doing Choi Kwang Do.

    They NEVER spar at any level or do ANY ground work, and if the international found out that your school

    does then they would demand that you stop.

    As you found out from doing Muay Thai kickboxing. CKD does not translate well to the ring or cage. Some

    of the techniques will work if you modify them to take the telegraph out. Most will not.
  2. saman is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/10/2008 4:43pm


     Style: TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well said Sheperd.
  3. Yohan is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/10/2008 5:02pm


     Style: JKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    CkD is the suckiest of the sucky.
  4. JanusMagus is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/13/2008 8:01pm


     Style: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Just to add some information about CKD in this topic, I will give some of their 'biomechanically' different techniques. This came from an instructor who learned straight out of Choi's books.

    First, punches are always supposed to be made from shoulder height, like a round punch/right hook; at least they teach to use your hips (but they don't really have a jab...both punches are supposed to use full hip rotation) and to use your back foot.

    Second, they train in both stances. They also teach a 'diagonal punch' that can be used as a liver punch (or the other side...) or a hook that doesn't use your shoulder to shield your face.

    Front kicks are not re-chambered...nor are most kicking techniques. Basically, you're supposed to fall forward on 'rear-leg' front kicks, knees, sidekicks, swing kicks(made the traditional karate way, except for falling forward), reverse swing kicks, heel kicks, downward kicks, etc. Almost all of these techniques have a front leg one too. The falling forward out of your stance might tie into the no preferred stance idea.

    Elbows are not supposed to be made with the bone but the muscle. The same goes for the low, middle, and high blocks that are sort of like karate/tkd blocks.

    The round punch, and maybe some others, are supposed to have a 'defensive' application where you lean back and turn your front foot into it.

    There are some other differences, but these are the main ones.

    edit: There is a 'defensive' round punch and diagonal punch. Also, on the blocks, you turn your front foot into them (the justification is that it turns protects the knee).
    Last edited by JanusMagus; 7/13/2008 8:34pm at .
  5. kwangjochoi is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/25/2008 11:57pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: choi kwang do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    CKD Book - useful as lavatory paper

    Quote Originally Posted by JanusMagus
    Just to add some information about CKD in this topic, I will give some of their 'biomechanically' different techniques. This came from an instructor who learned straight out of Choi's books.
    His books are nothing much to go by. He plagarizes Korean Medical books and steals the concepts out of them. If you ask him questions on specifics, he says it's all about the "concept of CKD" and not about specific topics.

    In other words, I've translated that to mean, don't ask me questions that aren't about Patterns and Speed Drills, because I have no in-depth knowledge myself.

    His books, like he once admitted to me, were to make him as famous as General Choi. He says General Choi was nothing until he wrote his books. So the guy whose art he slanders, he wants to be like.

    Unfortunately, Kwang Choi is still nothing, even after writing his books.
  6. Beorn is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/26/2008 12:37am


     Style: TKD, judo, MT noob

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JanusMagus
    Just to add some information about CKD in this topic, I will give some of their 'biomechanically' different techniques. This came from an instructor who learned straight out of Choi's books.
    i had a suspicion this was gonna get good right here.

    First, punches are always supposed to be made from shoulder height, like a round punch/right hook; at least they teach to use your hips (but they don't really have a jab...both punches are supposed to use full hip rotation) and to use your back foot.

    Second, they train in both stances. They also teach a 'diagonal punch' that can be used as a liver punch (or the other side...) or a hook that doesn't use your shoulder to shield your face.
    you should rotate your hips with every punch ever, this includes the jab. ask any boxer or karateka u know, they will be happy to show you the difference in power using your hips makes. Also, using your shoulder to block ur face is how u keep ur hooks from opening u up to jabs and crosses

    Front kicks are not re-chambered...nor are most kicking techniques. Basically, you're supposed to fall forward on 'rear-leg' front kicks, knees, sidekicks, swing kicks(made the traditional karate way, except for falling forward), reverse swing kicks, heel kicks, downward kicks, etc. Almost all of these techniques have a front leg one too. The falling forward out of your stance might tie into the no preferred stance idea.
    re-chambering your kicks has nothing to do having a favourite stance, any more than bringing your hands up to protect your face after throwing a punch does. its about recovery, and the ability to pull your leg (and thus the rest of your body) out of harms way if said kick was ill timed or if your opponent is just good at countering.

    Elbows are not supposed to be made with the bone but the muscle. The same goes for the low, middle, and high blocks that are sort of like karate/tkd blocks.
    the reason elbow strikes are done with the bone is to cause more damage. not only do your muscles have a cushioning effect on the strike itself, but it is quite possible to make your arm go numb and useless if u it something hard on them.(we wont even get in to the usefulness of cutting your opponent during a fight).

    The round punch, and maybe some others, are supposed to have a 'defensive' application where you lean back and turn your front foot into it.
    head movement is not a new concept, and your front foot should always be involved when you strike, whether pivoting for a left hook or stepping in for a jab/cross/whatever. more specifically, you will see several karate styles and the dreaded _ing _hun keep their heads back when punching, offensive or defensive.

    not trying to be a dick, but choi kwan do sounds like someone took the worst aspects of TKD and made it worse by applying a gross misunderstanding of both fighting and the human anatomy. my 2 cent

    EDIT: format problems
    Last edited by Beorn; 7/26/2008 12:41am at .
  7. kwangjochoi is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/26/2008 12:42am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: choi kwang do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn
    not trying to be a dick, but choi kwan do sounds like someone took the worst aspects of TKD and made it worse by applying a gross misunderstanding of both fighting and the human anatomy. my 2 cent
    Quote Originally Posted by kwangjochoi
    His books are nothing much to go by. He plagarizes Korean Medical books and steals the concepts out of them. If you ask him questions on specifics, he says it's all about the "concept of CKD" and not about specific topics.

    In other words, I've translated that to mean, don't ask me questions that aren't about Patterns and Speed Drills, because I have no in-depth knowledge myself.

    Hence my two cents worth. CKD is (and i use this term "loosely") TKD with gross movements, and a nice little dance beat.
  8. Beorn is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/26/2008 12:50am


     Style: TKD, judo, MT noob

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ^^^ yeah, sorry i was typing my big long response when u submitted ur pithy little reply, but i feel as though they compliment each other well ;-)
  9. Siniq is offline
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    1,749

    Posted On:
    7/26/2008 11:03am


     Style: Gym drifter

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Somebody needs to bgeat the crap out of some CKD practitioners if not Choi him self.
  10. madmonkey is offline

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    united kingdom
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    Posted On:
    7/26/2008 2:28pm


     Style: Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JanusMagus
    Just to add some information about CKD in this topic, I will give some of their 'biomechanically' different techniques. This came from an instructor who learned straight out of Choi's books.

    First, punches are always supposed to be made from shoulder height, like a round punch/right hook; at least they teach to use your hips (but they don't really have a jab...both punches are supposed to use full hip rotation) and to use your back foot.

    ).
    This part isn't that bad in that hip rotation is essential although lack of jabs and only ever throwing things from shoulder height seems to limited, although muay thai don't throw too many body shots due to risk of being kicked.

    Quote Originally Posted by JanusMagus
    Second, they train in both stances. They also teach a 'diagonal punch' that can be used as a liver punch (or the other side...) or a hook that doesn't use your shoulder to shield your face.
    Training in both stances can be a plus and is essential to train in your weaker stance at some point for that one time when you do get caught on the wrong foot.

    Quote Originally Posted by JanusMagus
    Front kicks are not re-chambered...nor are most kicking techniques. Basically, you're supposed to fall forward on 'rear-leg' front kicks, knees, sidekicks, swing kicks(made the traditional karate way, except for falling forward), reverse swing kicks, heel kicks, downward kicks, etc. Almost all of these techniques have a front leg one too. The falling forward out of your stance might tie into the no preferred stance idea.
    .
    Nothing wrong with falling forward on to kicking leg as gives you stable stance. Also chambering leg doesn't really stop anyone catching it. By swing kicks I take it you mean crescent kicks, if so they are an absolute waste of time and effort and are more likely to result in serious damage to the kicker.

    Quote Originally Posted by JanusMagus
    Elbows are not supposed to be made with the bone but the muscle. The same goes for the low, middle, and high blocks that are sort of like karate/tkd blocks.

    The round punch, and maybe some others, are supposed to have a 'defensive' application where you lean back and turn your front foot into it.

    There are some other differences, but these are the main ones.

    .
    The elbow being used with the muscle is silly, thai concept of hard parts of your body against soft parts illustrates how an elbow and strikes in general should work. IE you are aiming to hit big muscle groups or softer parts. Blocking or striking with a muscle is asking for trouble.

    The fact they still block sounds suspicious, if by block you mean cover up with a guard and absorb fine but otherwise forget it.

    Thanks for the contribution though interesting to hear more technical stuff on CKD

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