Choi Kwang Do, the delusion continues

**roscopeeco** · Posted On: 10/15/2007 12:40pm

@saman
was Mr.P nearly sent to jail in the UK then? tell me more!! I haven't met the man but he sounds like a right mackavellian piece of work.

When i told my instructor i was taking BJJ he told me that there was no way that he would be allowed to do that which i think is pretty ridiculous.

I remember going to the UK seminar in 2005 and missed the morning session...thank god because i nearly fell asleep from the Grandmasters detailed health benefit explanations lol.
They were also charging people to have their photos taken with the Grandmaster...they just don't know when they are kicking themselves in the teeth!!

The Koo website came as a bolt out of the blue for me about 9 months ago but luckily i can take a more critical view of things as i am not an assistant instructor or instructor. I would not be happy if i became and instructor and then found out that i am not allowed to cross train.

**roscopeeco** · Posted On: 10/15/2007 12:59pm

@Cyril
Choi Kwang Do black belt status is pretty much the same as TKD. All it really means is that you can competently perform the techniques.

i dont think you could get to 2nd dan in 8 months though (may be wrong though)...would have thought it was more like 2 years.

**saman** · Posted On: 10/16/2007 7:06am

According to Roger Koo, who was in business with him in the UK. I know he got tossed in the pokey a few years ago (according to p himself) as a result of a fight he got into with, I think, a Koo family member. According to his story, choi had to get him out in order for p to participate in some seminar.

**Fantasy Warrior** · Posted On: 10/16/2007 10:41pm

CKD is a crime against commonsense, that's reason enough to lock him up IMO.

**Jadonblade** · Posted On: 10/16/2007 11:13pm

A local CKD club is offering a month of training for £1, find it funny im still wondering if its worth it. Money does go to charity though...

**saman** · Posted On: 10/17/2007 6:52am

Funny indeed. We noticed the small print on the sign of a school we saw and it touted a free month for EVERY donation. So, we decided that 36 could get you a black belt!

**madmonkey** · Posted On: 10/17/2007 9:31am

Saman,

Interesting stuff about periera and choi. Wouldn't entirely agree about the TKD history as WTF and ITF history contradict each other and who knows which is more accurate. I have practiced both styles and enjoyed them for different reasons. ITF style is not just shotokan karate with more kicks though, It includes as many kung fu like moves as WTF, eg sonkal taerigi(knife hand strike). The difference is that WTF focuses more on the kicks and full contact sparring (sport element) while using simpler patterns. The ITF focuses more on self defence and semi contact sparring with more complicated patterns. Both use sequential movement in training. In fact most martial arts us sequential movement eg Boxing, Muay Thai.

But like anything else not the art that is effective but the person.
From the comments here Peirera does not seem to be a good kind of martial artist.

**saman** · Posted On: 10/18/2007 7:31am

Well, Nick, that's my point. choi touts that he "invented" sequential motion in martial arts, nobody else does it, they are all weak and powerless & will harm you etc. Anyone who has ever done tkd or karate and then goes on to buy into this line of crap must have to suspend reality or had exceptionally poor training in their prior art. The rest of them (ckd is their first/only ma) , who are well brain washed, BELIEVE:biblethum this with the zealousness of a Moonie at a train station.
The tkd history is that choi did kwon bup (Korean karate form) and ITF tkd and nothing else despite his public assertions. OLD style tkd (and, if you see N. Koreans do ITF tkd you will still see this) is quite "stiff" and lots of deep stances. I actually do know my ma history as it is part of my professional job as a researcher and author for ma books to compare the various versions of history and glean out the crapola. Nevertheless, having been to N. Korea to explore the state of tkd and observe the performances of these martial artists - an eyeopener. choi is pretty correct when he would tell us that there are few/no masters over 50 who actually still actively train. It is definitely for the young! In the West we see the changes that are able to evolve in a non-communist environment. Consequently, it is a little less physically harsh.
I still laugh at the memory of choi once telling me that periera was "somewhat limited" (regarding his martial arts skills) but that he knew how to get students in the door. Unfortunately, choi's observation has failed to show him that this guy is also the single most common reason that students LEAVE the school he operates and why CI's quit in disgust and are so anti-ckd. Any consultant in m.a. business will tell you that it is more cost effective to retain your students than to always having to recruit new ones.
To be totally honest, most of us don't necessarily think that the ART of ckd is so terrible for certain people. But the behaviour of their leadership, along with the underhanded acts when schools leave, makes it an embarassment to most of us to say that's what we teach. So, old ckd instructors re-make ckd, add and delete, and out comes something new. I.E. Pil Sung Do (http://pilsungdo.com/) or www.choikwangdo-fl.com/.

**madmonkey** · Posted On: 10/18/2007 9:45am

Interesting stuff, sounds like a fun job. Do you do that freelance or for a publishing company. I loved TKD as it made me feel like I was learning more than just how to fight, also a good moral code something to believe in (bear in mind this was when I was an impressionable teen). I really enjoy muay thai and other martial arts but the one thing cross training doesn't give you is a guiding set of pinciples beyond the pragmatic use it if it works.

I still feel that there are huge personal benefits from the traditional arts like tkd, karate, kung fu. The only thing I find hard to reconcile is some of the illusions they create about self defence effectiveness, as some of the more traditional stuff and tactics would be the last thing I would do in a self defence situation eg using traditional blocks or rigid stances.

My instructor Davey Goodfellow was very good at not only teaching the art but also giving lots of little practical nuggets of philosophy and ways of thinking. It wasn't incredible deep but it did help develop mental readiness as well as confidence and competence.

Choi might to be good at doing this but the impression one gets from the actual websites is of someone arrogant and self promoting.

**Hanniballistic** · Posted On: 10/18/2007 11:57am