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  1. Ryno is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    7/24/2007 12:05pm


     Style: FMA, Jujutsu/Judo/SAMBO

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Gi vs. No-gi... In the Str33t!

    This is a silly topic, I'll admit, but I've noticed this little issue come up numerous times in various grappling threads. It usually comes up like this, with a newbie asking:

    "Hay guyz, I'm thinkin about doin sum BJJ, but the place neer my hous only do's gi class. I mean WTF is that? Ppl don't wear no gi's in the str33t! Gi sucks! No gi is for the reals! What do you guys thinks?"

    I do mostly gi grappling. I live in Seattle where people wear rain jackets 10 months out of the year. Could I use these jackets to get a grip and toss an attacker on his head in the st33t? Yes, I could. Could I choke someone out with their overcoat? Yes, I could. ****, for that matter, I could use a T-shirt for a good number of chokes.

    The truth is that in Seattle, I have never seen someone walking down the street barefoot and barechested wearing some Tapout shorts. It just isn't done. Even in summer, most people wear pants and often times a light sweatshirt in the evening.

    Therefore, in Seattle and many other cooler climates, gi grappling is actually more applicable to a "street" situation than is no-gi. No-gi has some very strong merits, but so does gi grappling. Newbs, please think about that before you go off on some little rant.
  2. Teh El Macho is offline
    Teh El Macho's Avatar

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    Posted On:
    7/24/2007 12:26pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Man Ryno, trying to ask retards to think before ranting is like asking a pineapple to recite the multiplication tables. In any climate, gi grappling is applicable. The only places I could think people go naked or semi-naked is in, I dunno, New Guinea and the Amazons (or the nude beach we have down here).

    Also, any grappler with decent skills, be it with gi or without, should have no problem in the street. So the question really has no logical basis.

    You will develop an aneurism trying to educate stupid people. Most of the time, people ask such questions because

    1. they are stupid and don't have a habit of thinking and analyzing questions before opening their mouths.
    2. they already come with some preconceptions and an axe to grind (Ugh, Ugh, Grog thinks gi silly, so Grog says gi silly. Ugh, Ugh.)

    One or two individuals may really be interested in grappling and genuinely need an answer to that question. But the majority are just stupid and will ask that question as well as "what do you do if a boxer does this?" There are trolls in the internet and in real life.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

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    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  3. cshirk is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/25/2007 1:38pm


     Style: Kung-Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sounds dumb, but I was going to actually ask about the virtual merits of practicing in everyday wear - such as jeans and button-up shirt for myself - as opposed to a gi or something along those lines. My way of thinking of it is - especially for kicks - a gi leaves you much more freedom of movement then does what I usually see most people wearing everyday. Therefore there would be some merit at least in getting used to what your limitations are when dressed in "street clothes" or even a suit and tie.
  4. GoldenJonas is offline

    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    7/25/2007 2:25pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by cshirk
    Sounds dumb
    Oooooo, I'm on the edge of my seat........

    Quote Originally Posted by cshirk
    Therefore there would be some merit at least in getting used to what your limitations are when dressed in "street clothes" or even a suit and tie.
    ummmm, yes....yes, it is dumb. I own 6 suits, probably 15-20 dress shirts, and 30 or so ties; no to mention a number dress slacks and polo shirt which I wear to work on a daily basis.

    If I had to wear those cloths to train in I would be going through @12 $500-$750 dollar suits every month, plus @12 $35 dress shirts, plus torn ties, khakis, and polo shirts.

    Suddenly my MA training is VERY cost prohibitive.

    So, yes, your "idea" is a stupid one indeed.

    Gi -vs- No-Gi.....the never ending debate of the simple minded grapplers who fail to see or ac cept the benifit and limitations to both.
  5. Ryno is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/25/2007 2:29pm


     Style: FMA, Jujutsu/Judo/SAMBO

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sure you could do it, but you'd probably rip and destroy those clothes fairly fast. A Judo/BJJ gi is specifically designed to provide the handles/grip possibilities that you would commonly find in everyday clothes, but to also be durable and hold up to repeated abuse and not tear or stretch to the point of being destroyed.
  6. cshirk is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/25/2007 2:43pm


     Style: Kung-Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Conclusion: bad idea.
  7. SFire is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/25/2007 9:31pm


     Style: Dragon Ball Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Last edited by Cassius; 8/01/2007 8:49am at .
  8. Necroth is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/29/2007 5:16am


     Style: Vale Tudo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Gi vs. No-gi on the street can come into play when dealing with rednecks, ie. the South, but really alot of we, the few, the proud, the ones who train no-gi grappling, are training no gi because we fight MMA. Which is about 90% no-gi. And we don't want to spend 50% of our time training ezekiels, lapel chokes, how to control wrists with sleeves, throws with gi grips, etc. It is less about the fact that, as someone above stated in support of NOT wearing a suit-and-tie to train in, street clothing rips fairly easy and gis do not, although that does come into play.

    I am from Texas. We don't wear heavy coats (like the Michiganite who tried to tear my no-gi comments up by stating he would throw someone in a snowcoat the same as he'd throw them in a gi) and we don't wear thick shirts. Heck, rednecks rarely wear any shirts at all. And amazingly, most of the fights I've seen "on teh str33tz" involve drunken rednecks, since "civilized people" buy a gun, not bare knuckle brawl. So what part of a gi choke is useable on human skin?

    Now, since I already stated the MMA connection to the support of no-gi training, here's an example of why it's important. The average judoka will be stronger at throwing than the average BJJ-ka. But the only Judoka I've seen truly pulling off Judo throws in MMA events w/o gi is Karo Parysian, who has trained w/o gi for years to do just that. Most rely on the one or two throws that inherently needed little gripping to utilize, instead of finding the correlating grips from no-gi training to use on their gi based throws.

    That said, it's been shown as well that BJJ-ka who do nothing but gi grappling also translate poorly into MMA, and, more specifically, into no-gi competitions such as ADCC. Look at Eddie Bravo's multitude of wins in ADCC competition against BJJ-ka who spend most of their time in a gi and it's plain to see that if you want to win a competition without a gi, you shoudl train one without a gi. Bullshido prides itself on outing TMA's who don't spar but claim they have teh d34dly str33t sk1llz, how can anyone on Bullshido not out those who claim they can roll with a gi 5 times a week and own in no-gi comp? Seriously, it's two different situations, calling for two different setups. Sure, many subs and techniques overlap, but a no-gi trained grappler would never think he would be so good as to win at gi comps. That's where the sticking point truly is in the gi vs. no-gi battle. Too many of the gi-wearers think they have teh r34l BJJ and no-gi is a joke.
  9. money is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/29/2007 11:28am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, MT, MMA, CQB

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If I can go by what "COPS" tells me and my own experience with rednecks (which is pretty extensive), a lot of fights happen with guys who aren't wearing a shirt, or who take it off when **** is about to go down.

    No-gi ftw. :deadhorse
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  10. Cassius is online now
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    Posted On:
    7/29/2007 3:34pm

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Necroth
    Look at Eddie Bravo's multitude of wins in ADCC competition against BJJ-ka who spend most of their time in a gi and it's plain to see that if you want to win a competition without a gi, you shoudl train one without a gi.
    Using the word "Multitude" might be overstating the facts a little. You're also leaving out the part where after he beat the vaunted Royler Gracie, he got smashed by Leozinho, who trains gi and no gi.

    I agree with the point you wanted to make, though. Do both, and/or gear your training to what you want to compete in. It's common sense.
    "No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal
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