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  1. Cullion is offline
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    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    7/23/2007 10:42am

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     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hmm.. my reps are quite a bit faster than this. I always try work with a weight which I can handly rapidle but smoothly (without relying on bouncing, momentum of any sort) for 5-8 reps, and I stop when my form deteriorates into any kind of wobbling movement.

    Is this the right thing to do for somebody who is more interested in functional MA power than body-buidling hypertrophy, or am I missing out on something good ?

    Most of my reading so far for supplimenting MA training with weight training has emphasized specifity, which to my mind says 'if you want to move quickly with power, move the weights quickly with power (within safe parameters)'.
    Last edited by Cullion; 7/23/2007 11:09am at .
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  2. Nid is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/23/2007 10:50am

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     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well, that's a drum I'm done beating, cuz straight-forwardness just isn't romantic.

    In short, specificity means tai chi itself. It means riding a unicycle itself. It means bjj itself.

    Strength training means growing muscle for strength. The only kind of strength which comes from muscle meat. Force production, both static and dynamic.

    Divy up all the other kinds of "strength" in the sport you're doing. Just don't think a heaved bar-bell has any athletic analogy elsewhere. The hammer throw is the hammer throw. A suplex is a suplex. Do them as they're done, or else don't bother.

    Search function for past rants.
    Last edited by Nid; 7/23/2007 10:54am at .
  3. PirateJon is offline
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    and good morning to you too

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    Posted On:
    7/23/2007 11:09am

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     Style: MT/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The intentional use of slow movement in weight training reflects an inadequate understanding of the nature of efficient power production, the physics of work, and weight-room safety.
    Quoteing Ripptoe from "Practical Programming for Strength Training"

    His basic point is that you don't recruit all of the muscle fibers in your lifts if you do it slow.
    You can't make people smarter. You can expose them to information, but your responsibility stops there.
  4. Nid is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/23/2007 11:19am

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     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    And that is *precisely* where the fucktardery starts.

    Simplest example. Holding oneself at the the top of a chin-up = ZERO power production, ZERO force, ZERO work. Yet...the damn muscle seems to be doing SOMETHING.

    That said, there is ZERO meaningful discussion when one uses his own custom vernacular for those terms...in particular.

    This is where I need Mylanta.

    I...I...can't go on.
  5. Cullion is offline
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    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    7/23/2007 11:24am

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     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PirateJon
    Quoteing Ripptoe from "Practical Programming for Strength Training"

    His basic point is that you don't recruit all of the muscle fibers in your lifts if you do it slow.
    What would his explanation be for the reason it's more tiring, and aches a lot more afterwards when I do it slowly with a lighter weight ? I'm not trolling, I'm a relative noob lifter and trying to learn.
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  6. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    7/23/2007 11:48am

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     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kein Haar
    I would posit the ligaments are so devoid of metabolic activity, there can only be heartbreak and disaster from trying to compromise them for the sake of meaningful growth. Growth which would take FOREVER if compromised like muscles are. Muscles are hot and bloody....they're meant to grow and change in short order.
    Ligaments may be devoid of vascularization, but it's still living tissue that gets nutrients (via synovial fluid) and that can adapt (by increasing tensile strenght, and elasticity - growth is a distant third.) And just like muscle, they need to adapt to different loads and velocities. All of this happens automatically with good form. No need to compromise anything. The only time ligaments (and muscles) get compromised is when people overtrain, don't warm up, or do crazy **** with bad form or too much weight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kein Haar
    I would take for granted that ligaments are gonna do what they're gonna do with safe and proper strength training protocol
    Well, duh!!! Tendons will do what they are supposed to do with proper form, just like muscles.

    -- EDIT --

    Slow-mo is good for teaching people proper mechanics as well as for the eccentric part of the lift (since muscles are stronger on the eccentric than on the concentric.) BUT after a point, that would be a waste of time.
    Last edited by Teh El Macho; 7/23/2007 11:51am at .
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  7. Cullion is offline
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    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    7/23/2007 12:03pm

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     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Is this a bad time for me to bring up TCMA 'tendon changing' exercises ?
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  8. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/23/2007 12:20pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What the hell are those???? :icon_conf
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  9. Cullion is offline
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    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    7/23/2007 12:29pm

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     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    They vary by style of CMA. What I've seen involves very slow, relaxed movement where the limb is extended and held up against gravity for prolonged periods, often moving very slowly.
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  10. Cullion is offline
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    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    7/23/2007 12:31pm

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     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I don't know if any science supports this stuff. It's just that 'tendons cannot be safely targetted for training' has been brought up and it's a common TCMA contention that they can, and that is what some of the weird looking exercises/forms are for.
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