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  1. Cullion is offline
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    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    7/23/2007 1:54pm

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     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt W.
    No, low weight - high rep is a pretty standard "leaning out" formula across the board.
    It's been doubted here many times by more experienced lifters. I am not an experienced lifter or any sort of qualified personal trainer.

    This is the last I read on the subject:-

    Specifically the section 'High Repetitions Burn More Fat Myth'

    http://www.exrx.net/WeightTraining/Myths.html

    The origin they propose for this theory is:-

    It is plausible that the high repetition myth was originated and later propagated by bodybuilders that used calorie restrictive diets to shed fat before a contest. Because of their weakened state from dieting, they were unable to use their usual heavier weights. When asked about their use of lighter weights, they explained they were "cutting up" for a contest. This is merely a theory, but it is easy to see how it may have been misunderstood that the lighter weight was used to reduce fat instead of actually being a result of their dietary regime.
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  2. A.D.D is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/23/2007 2:13pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    It's been doubted here many times by more experienced lifters. I am not an experienced lifter or any sort of qualified personal trainer.

    This is the last I read on the subject:-

    Specifically the section 'High Repetitions Burn More Fat Myth'

    http://www.exrx.net/WeightTraining/Myths.html

    The origin they propose for this theory is:-
    I think he meant things like this:

    http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1624757&cr=

    Rather than squatting your bodyweight 500 times.
  3. Cullion is offline
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    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    7/23/2007 2:23pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That's not describing a low-weight high-rep programme.
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  4. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/23/2007 2:25pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Repulsive Monkey
    The truth is that lifting weights can burn astonishing amounts of calories, but you've got to already be in excellent shape to be able to work at that type of pace and intensity.

    Everyone here wants to skip to idealized versions of lifting schemes, but no one seems to pay any attention to the needs that beginners have for skill development and injury prevention.
    Cachin!!!!
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

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    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  5. Matt W. is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/23/2007 3:26pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    By low weight - high rep I mean lifting weight that keeps you in about the 15 rep range. A high weight - low rep program would be lifting weight that keeps you in the 6-8 rep range (or even lower). And it is the common belief that low weight - high rep is used for cutting weight, leaning out and gaining definition. People believe that because it works muscle endurance and literally burns more calories in a workout due to, among other things, the shorter rest periods.

    However, please note that in my initial post I challenged that formula and provided the reasons why.
  6. cyrijl is offline
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    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    7/23/2007 3:46pm

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     Style: BJJ, MT, Yoga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My 2 cents.

    I got the address of exrx.net from el macho. For 3 months I did the two day split exercises. I don't lift crazy heavy weights, nothing to failure. Just 3 sets of 8-12 reps. Except for the lat tower for my bench all of the exercises can be done with dumbbells. At the same time I began to track my food intake at www.thedailyplate.com. Along with my BJJ and MT training I dropped from >216 April 1st to 184 today. That is 30lbs in ~3 months. Assuming tat i have gained muscle (which I hope I have), I think that is a good start.

    I don't know as much as lot of you guys here, but I agree that someone's initial workout program has to be sustainable. You have to be able to complete it. To that end my recommendation is to keep a workout journal and stick to a schedule. Before exrx, I would randomly lift some weights but never got motivated. Now I look at what day it is, I do my weights and I don't worry about whether I have done enough. As long as I stick to my schedule I feel good about it.

    Now I am on a 3day split (Push, Pull, Legs). I do all of the optional exercises (8-10 exercised per day). It takes me about 45 minutes. On nights where the weather is nice I do a two mile walk. Don't forget that stress can add weight. Going for a brisk stroll (not a race) can help you relax and stretch out some muscles. Eh, I guess that's it.
  7. Cullion is offline
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    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    7/23/2007 3:54pm

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     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt W.
    By low weight - high rep I mean lifting weight that keeps you in about the 15 rep range. A high weight - low rep program would be lifting weight that keeps you in the 6-8 rep range (or even lower). And it is the common belief that low weight - high rep is used for cutting weight, leaning out and gaining definition.
    It is a common belief, but I don't think it's especially conducive to fat loss. As I understand it, it can improve tone by doing more for vascular development in the muscle (when working endurance of any sort a common adaptation is development of the systems which brings fuel and remove waste products, in this case blood vessels).

    People believe that because it works muscle endurance and literally burns more calories in a workout due to, among other things, the shorter rest periods.
    Rest periods, weight and reps are all different things. You can take short rest periods between sets with a higher weight and less reps.

    My understanding is that the calories burned during a workout with weights are relatively small (compared to say, an intense MA class).

    The change in body composition comes from cranking up the metabolism to burn more calories all day after the workout (when you go for short enough rest periods and effectively end up doing anaerobic interval training with the weights) and from increasing muscle mass, where calories are used to build the muscle during recovery, and then additional calories are used over the long term to maintain the muscle.

    According to that exrx site moving heavy weights with your largest muscle groups (as a proportion of your 1rm) are more conducive to stimulating growth hormone and testosterone production (which have a body-composition changing effect).
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  8. Matt W. is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/23/2007 4:09pm

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     Style: Judo, TKD BB

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It is a common belief, but I don't think it's especially conducive to fat loss.
    I agree.

    You can take short rest periods between sets with a higher weight and less reps.
    The lighter the weight, the less recovery time your muscles need between sets. So, generally speaking, one can utilize shorter rest periods when lifting light than lifting heavy. Of course, everything varies from person to person. I've read of body builders that lift hella heavy and still have, like, 30 seconds rest between sets. However, I know that for myself, if I'm lifting a weight that keeps me in the 6 rep range, I have to rest longer between sets to stay at 6 reps (i.e. recover for the next set) than I do to stay at 15 reps with a lighter weight.

    The change in body composition comes from cranking up the metabolism to burn more calories all day after the workout
    This is true and yet another reason why lifting heavy can be just as beneficial for losing body fat as lifting light with high reps. So, I don't think we're really in disagreement here. It remains true, however, that the standard advice given is that for weight loss you should lift low weight - high rep, which is all I was saying about that.
  9. Chameleon is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/23/2007 4:12pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by cyrijl
    At the same time I began to track my food intake at www.thedailyplate.com. Along with my BJJ and MT training I dropped from >216 April 1st to 184 today.
    Nice. That's pretty much what I'm hoping for...that dailyplate link looks like it could help a lot. Thanks!
  10. NasalInfection is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/23/2007 4:19pm


     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    cyrijl and anthonillo started a user group there, I joined although I stopped using the plate due to laziness. I am due to start again.
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