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  1. WhiteShark is offline
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    1% Shark is better than you.

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    Posted On:
    7/19/2007 10:08am

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     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Concerning Footwork

    So in another thread I posted about my second striking coach and how he used to tease me abut my "Thai March". Some people posted "How do Thai march?" Some I'm sure wondered what could possibly be wrong with the footwork of the WORLDS GREATEST STRIKING STYLE! So here is my anecdote.

    Footwork: Like anything that has to be learned there is a way that beginners do things and a way that experts do things. In my experience trying to learn something the way an expert does it almost always leads you down the wrong road. The reason for this is that you must master the basics and know the rules of your craft before you can know when and how to break the rules. A great martial arts example is crossing your feet. If a newb crosses their feet in front of me I am going to dump them on their ass. When one of my coaches does it and still hits me it is because they knew when and how to break the rules.

    So the basic footwork I learned was what I call the Thai march. It has a few basic rules. First of all you never cross your feet. You also want to keep both feet on parallel paths like you are walking along train tracks. Also you gotta stay on the balls of your feet and move in a slight bouncing rhythm. Listening to Thai music helps. Whenever we wanted to turn or switch forward legs we were supposed to plant a foot and block with the back leg then end with that leg in front.

    This is a very basic Thai footwork it trains a lot of good habits. It is NOT however very mobile when compared with boxing footwork.

    My first Muay Thai fight was with a guy form New York that had the same school of thought. March forward at all times. Engage in a clinch and knee each other to death. We had a great fight it was one of the most brutal of the tournament and maybe 10 punches were thrown. I lost but was proud of my performance.

    My second fight didn't go so well. It was against a guy with a boxing and American rules kick boxing background. I marched across the ring in my usual style secured a clinch and kneed him hard until we both fell over and the ref stood us up. I knew I had hurt him because I heard him lose his air in the clinch. Unfortunately he was smart and had no intention of clinching with me again. He used very slick lateral footwork to keep my silly marching away from him. I chased him around the ring for three rounds being hit in the face constantly. I had no plan for fighting someone that didn't want to clinch with me. I didn't know how to cut off the ring because I expected everyone to be as aggressive as I am. I lost he decision badly. I had a few people that night tell me that in Thailand I would have won because his evasion looked cowardly. Unfortunately I was in America and he hit me in the face 114 times...

    So the monday after that fight Richard told me that my Thai Marching is not got to work against guys that don't want to march right into me. Maybe I should also learn how to bob and weave because getting hit in the face over and over again doesn't look good to the judges no matter how hard your head is.

    He put me in the ring and taught me how to move left and right and forward and back in a different stance. A boxing stance: I kept my front foot almost flat and my back heel way up almost on my toes. Always move the foot that is closest to the direction you want to go first. Don't be afraid to take big sliding steps and lower your weight in general. So I would move back and forth in every direction for several rounds at the end of every class. Then he added a rope diagonally across the ring I had to keep moving every direction on the compass and be able to bob under the rope and move along its length.

    Finally the next part of using this footwork is learning how to cut off the ring and control a retreating opponent. This is done with a belly pad and focus mitts. Then you get to chase and hit a guy with much better footwork than you. :)

    Finally I get to put this all together. I know 2 interesting kinds of footwork and I know when to use them. I still tend to get on my toes and "march" when I want to clinch but otherwise my weight is much lower and my front foot is a little more planted. The neat thing is when you know the basics of different kinds of footwork you can choose when to use them and what favors you and the opponent you are fighting.

    That is when you can make it your own footwork and see when breaking the rules works for you.
  2. jeansberg is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/20/2007 2:37am


     Style: None

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Interesting read. :thumbsup: I was taught a style more similar to traditional boxing I guess. I'm still somewhat wary of the bob&weave though. I don't want to bob into someone's knee if I ever spar with knees allowed.
  3. PPlate is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/20/2007 5:43am


     Style: Muay Thai, Boxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Shark,
    I too am undecided about the muay thai footwork. It has it's drawbacks, it's not as mobile as a lower stance.

    The way I'm taught is to keep the front foot flat though, and only the rear foot's on the ball of the foot. Some thai camps teach to step with both feet flat and only raise to ball of the foot when punching, kicking and clinching, as this saves energy. I guess they have their tradeoffs, you have more shock absorbing potential when the rear is on the ball.

    I also agree wtih the muay thai thinking to keep tall so as to make it harder for your opponent to land head kicks and to pull your head down for knees. Being lower certainly makes it easier to land kicks to your head, and I guess it'll be slower for checking kicks and leaning back to avoid high kicks because of the lower CG. But being tall, as you note, has it's tradeoffs, it's not as mobile.

    I've sparred kyokushin guys, and they like to move around, especially to move around you and kick your legs, and at times I do feel disadvantaged. I sometimes feel like a sitting duck while they're a moving target.

    In your example, I guess the key is to cut off the ring, which you didn't do in the first fight.

    If you had cut off the ring, he'd have to move really fast to avoid ending up on the ropes or in the corner. Or he'll waste lots of energy trying to get away from you.

    My 2 cents.
  4. saturnjunkie is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/20/2007 1:04pm


     Style: FMA & judo-ultra noob

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/atta...5&d=1178551391

    That is the link to my 'beginners guide to arnis' sans pictures. It has a section on how I was taught footwork in Arnis. I enjoy using the method of footwork over what I was taught in TKD and kickboxing. It's very well planted but also very mobile. It keeps working the angles while at the same time pushing the pace of the fight and cutting off the ring. Simple and effective. Can't go wrong there.
  5. Khun Kao is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/20/2007 2:18pm


     Style: MuayThai

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sounds very simliar to the "Lion's Walk" and/or "Tiger's Walk" of MuayThai. When you blocked with your rear leg, which came into the more predominant blocking position?
  6. WhiteShark is offline
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    1% Shark is better than you.

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    Posted On:
    7/20/2007 3:27pm

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     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Khun Kao
    Sounds very simliar to the "Lion's Walk" and/or "Tiger's Walk" of MuayThai. When you blocked with your rear leg, which came into the more predominant blocking position?
    Not sure what you mean. When I mimiced a block while walking or turning that leg usually became the front leg and I switched stances. Along with some hand rolling this was also part of my Wai Kru.
  7. Khun Kao is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/20/2007 8:37pm


     Style: MuayThai

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Okay, I've seen the stepping with the hand rolling moves before. What I'm referring to does not involve the hand rolling/weaving that you are describing though. The two methods I've learned are the Lion's Walk & Tiger's Walk. As you walk forward and raise your knee in the block position, I learned that you either use the same-side arm as a shield, or the opposite-side arm as a shield. If the knee block and arm block are on the same side, it is the Lion's Walk... if they are opposite, it is the Tiger's Walk.
  8. WhiteShark is offline
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    1% Shark is better than you.

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    Posted On:
    7/20/2007 11:26pm

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     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Lion's Walk for sure.
  9. TehDeadlyDimMak is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/21/2007 2:19am


     Style: Sanda, BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Interesting read. My coach mentioned that some Muay Thai fighters are taught to always advance, but I never thought twice about it.

    Good to know something as simple as how you position your feet can make all the difference int he world.

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