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  1. nicktkd is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/16/2007 2:09pm


     Style: taekwondo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ok... here is a question for bjj and rape attacks... ok your a lady a guy attacks you and you put him in a joint lock or whatever, what then?? wouldnt a simple kick to the knee or finger to the eye work just the same or better. I just dont see how bjj could help in a real world situation(real world being outside of a cage or ring) i'm not bashing bjj its a great art and i've trained in it myself, but i just dont see why everyone praises it as the greatest MA of all time, when its not, no art is. IMHO no one style is better than the other. its the INDIVIDUALS who train harder in their style, that make the difference. If the majority of your "real world fights" are ending up on the ground you need to learn to hit harder, again just my opinion. Seriously, a lot of real world fights that take place in bars end up on the ground. Also many of the fights involving two people who aren't committed to winning end up on the ground. But if you use TKD and the power it has you will be fine without ever rolling around on the ground. That being said, I think having a certain amount of skill in ground fighting is key. The problem with BJJ is that in a pure form, BJJ does not give you a way to "win." You have to control the person and then break something. The problem comes when any of the witnesses recount the story to the police - you put him in a "judo lock" and then broke his arm, even though he had stopped fighting back.
      #1
  2. cyrijl is offline
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    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    7/16/2007 2:18pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, MT, Yoga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    1 - lurk more post less
    2 - go home.
      #2
  3. nicktkd is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/16/2007 2:42pm


     Style: taekwondo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    so its ok for eveyone to bash my style but when i bash back i just get "go home" great ....how about tell me where i'm wrong or something the best you have is "go home" give me a break
      #3
  4. cyrijl is offline
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    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    7/16/2007 2:52pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, MT, Yoga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ok. I got some time
    <setting up quote brackets>
    ok... here is a question for bjj and rape attacks... ok your a lady a guy attacks you and you put him in a joint lock or whatever, what then??
    You throw them to the ground and run. Your scream for help. You break something.

    wouldnt a simple kick to the knee or finger to the eye work just the same or better. I
    Hitting someone and losing position is better than being in control of the person? I just don't think so. If you can kick and run, that is great. But it is not always an option. Finger to the eye? i am not even going to comment on that...wait yes I will.

    Do you know how hard it is to hit someone in the eyes? Realistic self defense should not rely on fine motor skills. Kicking and punching are good, but your examples suck.

    just dont see how bjj could help in a real world situation(real world being outside of a cage or ring) i'm not bashing bjj its a great art and i've trained in it myself, but i just dont see why everyone praises it as the greatest MA of all time, when its not, no art is.
    Proper BJJ includes basic striking (straight,cross, low kick) and basic judo throws.

    IMHO no one style is better than the other. its the INDIVIDUALS who train harder in their style, that make the difference.
    Been dealt with a million times here. Read more. Maybe a generous bullie will link.

    If the majority of your "real world fights" are ending up on the ground you need to learn to hit harder, again just my opinion.
    1 - Hitting harder doesn't stop someone who really wants to take you down
    2- You can fall...believe it or not...sometimes people actually trip and fall. Especially if being pulled or being chased

    Seriously, a lot of real world fights that take place in bars end up on the ground. Also many of the fights involving two people who aren't committed to winning end up on the ground.
    WHAT? Committed to winning? This argument has more to do with staying out of bars than bjj.


    But if you use TKD and the power it has you will be fine without ever rolling around on the ground.
    I thought the person had the power not the art. Geez...do you even read your own posts? At any rate you don't roll around on the ground...you fight to get position, hurt the person stand up and run like hell. If i wanted to take you down I could and you would not get up until I let you. And I sux at takedowns, but i got more experience (most likely) than you do

    That being said, I think having a certain amount of skill in ground fighting is key.
    Eh...maybe.Ya think?

    The problem with BJJ is that in a pure form, BJJ does not give you a way to "win."
    I bet you I could "win" you with bjj. Or are you not familiar with the ol'd GnP? Or hip toss on to the head. Have you even looked at the curriculum? There is striking.

    You have to control the person and then break something. The problem comes when any of the witnesses recount the story to the police - you put him in a "judo lock" and then broke his arm, even though he had stopped fighting back.
    I don't think a woman who is attacked by a man trying to rape her is going to have witnesses. And most witnesses are going to say "This guy grabbed her, threw her on the ground and she really fucked him up"....


    On top of everything, what makes you think someone can't just hit you back.
    Last edited by cyrijl; 7/16/2007 2:58pm at .
      #4
  5. Jhemsley is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/16/2007 3:50pm


     Style: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by nicktkd
    But if you use TKD and the power it has you will be fine without ever rolling around on the ground. That being said, I think having a certain amount of skill in ground fighting is key.
    This makes zero sense. You don't need to be able to get on the ground, but you need to be able to get on the ground. Is this some sort of Jedi Mind trick or Zen riddle I'm not getting?

    As far as whether or not BJJ is a useful for rape. You do realize 99.999% of rapes occur at a range of 12 inches or less? Nobody gets raped at roundhouse distance. With that in mind, maybe being able to grapple is handy in that situation.

    And I'm not even trying to down on TKD here. While I don't think it is fair to say its the equal of BJJ, I'm not saying its impossible to stop an assailant with head kick - but you have a quarter of a seond to land a head kick if someone is coming at you. You have a lot longer to fight them off grappling when they by the very nature of the assualt have to grapple with you.

    Believe me, if a crowd of peopel saw a women getting raped, no one is going to bitch if she uses a 'judo lock.'

    And a cross collar choke or rear naked choke is a hell of win condition in any fight.
      #5
  6. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

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    Posted On:
    7/18/2007 12:39pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
    Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
    Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
    Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
    Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
    Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a ***** or just cruising for some
    I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
    TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
    ATTN TOM KAGAN
    World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
    Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
    I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
    Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.
      #6
  7. Thaiboxerken is offline
    Thaiboxerken's Avatar

    Genius

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    Posted On:
    7/18/2007 12:45pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kru-MuayThai,GJJ-Blue

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This is the same kind of idiot logic that makes about as much sense as "in the street, that MMA stuff doesn't work because I'll just tap-out to make you let go and then kick your ass."
    "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire.
      #7
  8. Mas is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/18/2007 1:02pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by nicktkd
    The problem comes when any of the witnesses recount the story to the police - you put him in a "judo lock" and then broke his arm, even though he had stopped fighting back.
    People always forget chokes as a fight ender... it's quick, effective, and less messy than a break.

    And what they said.

      #8
  9. Phrost is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/18/2007 1:53pm

    Business Class Supporting Memberstaff
     Guy Who Pays the Bills and Gets the Death Threats Style: MMA (Retired)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Thaiboxerken
    This is the same kind of idiot logic that makes about as much sense as "in the street, that MMA stuff doesn't work because I'll just tap-out to make you let go and then kick your ass."
      #9
  10. KayRoc is offline

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    San Jose
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    Posted On:
    7/18/2007 2:02pm


     Style: Crappling (BJJ Hiatus)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    nicktkd, you have revolutionized the world with your thoughts on BJJ. Matter of fact, I'm going to go out and cancel my BJJ classes right now, all due to your well-thought-out arguement, effectively proving BJJ to be sort of, well, useless.

    Oh wait, never mind, you are full of crap. If it was a mythical street fight, and I somehow armbarred your ass, your arm is going to snap before I get off your sorry ass.
      #10
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