223824 Bullies, 4235 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 1 to 10 of 71
Page 1 of 8 1 2345 ... LastLast
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. Mercurius is offline
    Mercurius's Avatar

    Wandering Daoist

    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    1,469

    Posted On:
    9/25/2002 2:11pm

    supporting member
     Style: Karate, Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thought of this when I was watching the old MT vs TKD video in the downloads section. Everyone knows TKD is founded on kicking, but it seems like MT can match it kick-for-kick in the ring, which pretty much makes TKD look incomplete when faced with MT. If TKD can kick to the legs, MT can do it better. If TKD can kick to the body or the head, MT can do it just as well. Plus, MT has the knees that TKD doesn't, and while it doesn't have many spinning or jumping kicks, those can be of dubious efficiency anyway.

    Handwork? MT has TKD again, since modern MT guys actually use their hands and take cues from boxers on pugilism, but TKD doesn't allow punches to the face and rarely gives points for them elsewhere.

    If anyone cares to jump off the TKD-bashing bandwagon for a second and come up with something TKD has over MT, they're welcome. Also, anyone with other thoughts should comment.

    --------------------
    And that's what I call REAL Ultimate Power!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    "The morning glory blooms for an hour. It differs not at heart from the giant pine, which lives for a thousand years."
  2. Sucka_MC is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    112

    Posted On:
    9/25/2002 2:41pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The biggest difference would be chambered kicks versus unchambered. In TKD we chamber the kicks which gives us the ability to vary the impact point of out kicks in a split second. Ex. I could originally attck for your stomach but see your defense switch and through the raising of my knee I can easily change my target to your head. In MT most kicks are unchambered and your original target tends to stay your target.

    That being said. Chambered kicks aren't as powerful as unchambered. It basically comes down to the question of when is a blow powerful enough and when does it become overkill.





    Edited by - Sucka_MC on September 25 2002 14:41:56
  3. jkd_fighter is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    953

    Posted On:
    9/25/2002 2:54pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    well i think it all depends on the fighters and the style or school of tkd. the fighter on that video was obviously from the wtf style. but what about itf? just monday night at the tkd school i go to, we had someone new try out a class. when we were practicing hook kicks i noticed she could do them very well. at the end of class i found out that she was a black belt in wtf, but she had trouble keeping up to our blue belts! i agree that mt has tkd with hand work, but you still lern lots of hand work in tkd. in tkd we have a snap punch (like a jab) upset punch (like an uppercut) spinning backfist, double punch (exact same as a jab cross combo). mt can match tkd kick for kick in the ring? idon't think so, tkd has much more kicks than mt so why couldn't you use them in the ring? just because it looked that way in the video does not mean its true. you should not judge from watching that video. the mt practioner was a way better fighter than the tkd practioner. jumping kicks do work. you ca get alot more power in them if you know how to do them properly and quickly.

    if tkd can kick to the head mt can do it better? explain this.

    if tkd can kick to the legs mt can do it better? explain this.

    mt has the knees that tkd doesn't, i agree but a good tkd practioner usualy won't let the mt practioner get that close.

    you should not judge just from watching that video.
  4. jkd_fighter is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    953

    Posted On:
    9/25/2002 3:08pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    just finished watching that video. it apeared that the tkd guy was a red belt. also HE SUCKED. this does not mean tkd is bad, just that fighter was. he didn't keep his hand up, he let the mt guy get in close, was slow. his strtegy was all wrong, it looked like the tkd guy would let the mt guy come close, the he would try and walk back and get out of range, when that didn't work he throw a crappy kick(hes probably use to olympic sparring) and the mt guy would throw a cut kick and knock him on his ass. a very bad strategy.
  5. Nihilanthic is offline

    Decafinated white belt.

    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    JacksonFAILLE Flor-i-duh
    Posts
    1,521

    Posted On:
    9/25/2002 7:04pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    TKD doesn't have the hard sparring and conditioning Muay Thai has, the vast majority of the time. Muay Thai also has less restrictive rules for sparring, and fighting in general. "More kicks" doesn't mean crap, what matters is if you can fight effectively. Knowing how to do spinning kicks of varying degrees of rotation, or from different angles, or from the rear or lead leg, or from a right or left stance... there is a lot of multiplicity in all of that.
    A front kick is a front kick, not a right/left lead/rear leg front kick... And Spinning kicks just aren't normally that effective, especially when you turn your back. If its blocked, you stop, with your back to him. BAD. Most jumping attacks are also quite dangerous, and finally, the stance is flawed in some ways. Its sideways and geared to protecting the legal target area, not for full hand to hand. From what I've seen, sadly, TKD is more geared to demonstration and less to competition, but thats what I've seen in the USA.

    <Me> John, what do you know about Zen Buddhism? <John> *smacks me*
    <John> I'd have to smack you sometime...

    Edited by - Nihilanthic on September 25 2002 19:05:30
    Katana, on 540 kicks: "Hang from a ceiling fan with both hands. Flail your feet out and ask people to walk into you as you hit their face."
  6. Mercurius is offline
    Mercurius's Avatar

    Wandering Daoist

    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    1,469

    Posted On:
    9/25/2002 11:46pm

    supporting member
     Style: Karate, Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    i agree that mt has tkd with hand work, but you still lern lots of hand work in tkd. in tkd we have a snap punch (like a jab) upset punch (like an uppercut) spinning backfist, double punch (exact same as a jab cross combo).
    TKD people might learn handwork, but what fuckin' use is it if they don't put it to work in matches?

    TKD could do so much better for itself as a martial art by removing some of the stupid-ass rules that hinder it. If a guy lands a solid punch to the body, give him a point, start teaching knees and how to fight in ranges other than kicking.

    In order to win a match with an MT guy, a TKD fighter would have to both keep his opponent at kicking range AND survive the leg kicks/sweeps being thrown at him. Last I checked, TKD doesn't do that much leg conditioning.

    mt can match tkd kick for kick in the ring? idon't think so, tkd has much more kicks than mt so why couldn't you use them in the ring?
    Nihilanthic is right about more kicks not meaning ****. TKD practicioners are pretty much only truly good with the roundhouse kick (which they split up into a thousand variations).

    Aside from the roundhouse, there's the side kick and front kick (which TKD might be better than MT in), the hook kick, which is a shitty no-damage impractical kick thrown from a shitty "please kick me in the leg and make me fall" stance, and the back kick, which is a mediocre counter to a roundhouse kick, but too goddamn exposive (kidneys, coccyx, base of neck, back of head, etc.) to be worth the risk.

    Spinning kicks? First, you need an opening, one that's gonna be there while you commit to the spin and as the kick lands (unlikely against a good opponent). The risks are the same as a back kick, if you're caught in a spin and an MT guy knees you hard enough in the kidney, you'll piss blood for a week.

    Jumping kicks? You need even more of an opening than spinning kicks, plus just as you get off the ground, at first glance your opponent is going to be able to know more than enough about what kick you're going to do, where it's coming from and the intended target, and where you're going to land, that he's going to, without a doubt, be able to counter properly.

    just because it looked that way in the video does not mean its true. you should not judge from watching that video.
    Did I ever say I based these judgements upon watching that video? What's that? No? Well, that question's answered.

    the mt practioner was a way better fighter than the tkd practioner.
    No ****, Sherlock.

    jumping kicks do work. you ca get alot more power in them if you know how to do them properly and quickly.
    Sure you can get more power in them, but at their fastest they're not as fast as an opponent's going to be able to react.

    To land a good roundhouse kick, play around and an opportunity will come. To land a good jumping kick, leave a bag full of cash in his locker before the fight and attach a note to it: "Please let me hit you in the head with a jumping kick. Signed, tkd_fighter".

    Either that, or hope he's dumb enough to give you an opening (a big, long opening) when he knows you should have to pay him for it.

    if tkd can kick to the head mt can do it better? explain this.
    I didn't say that. The name for the logical fallacy you're attempting to introduce into the argument is "straw man" - altering an opponent's statement and proceeding to defeat the altered statement, as opposed to the original one.

    if tkd can kick to the legs mt can do it better? explain this.
    I did, however, say this, and yes, I can explain it.

    MT trains leg kicks as an actual competition weapon. If your leg is bruised all to hell, your mobility and your ability to use it as a weapon will suffer. MT also trains against it (defenses, conditioning) as well.

    The only chance TKD has of comparing to MT leg kicks is applying its roundhouse kick power targeted to the legs, however, they never practice this and thus aren't going to have the same proficiency in it as MT practicioners.

    Coupled with TKD's lack of shin conditioning, a TKD man altering his technique to kick to the leg is just not going to stand up to an MT fighter throwing a leg kick.

    mt has the knees that tkd doesn't, i agree but a good tkd practioner usualy won't let the mt practioner get that close.
    OK, let's say a TKD fighter and an MT fighter are at kicking range.

    For the MT fighter, it's a simple matter of leg kicking the TKD fighter into submission (since TKD has jack **** leg conditioning) or waiting for the TKD fighter to create an opening for a low kick/sweep, at which point, the MT fighter could close to a safe distance, and go for the knees once his opponent rises.

    you should not judge just from watching that video.
    Marvelous advice. I'm glad I could follow it before you even told me.



    --------------------
    And that's what I call REAL Ultimate Power!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    "The morning glory blooms for an hour. It differs not at heart from the giant pine, which lives for a thousand years."
  7. 9chambers

    Guest

    Posted On:
    9/26/2002 4:41am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I haven't seen too many sidekicks in MT .. I can't recall ever seeing one in it.

    I think the front (boxing) guard that the MT guys use is way more practical than the side guard used in point sparring (to hide the legal target area on the front of the torso) because you have all four limbs ready (for offense or defense) and your rear leg kicks aren't telegraphed by a step with your base leg like in the side guard.

    That being said, I still think sidekicks are cool. You just have to know how to throw them from the front guard. It takes a little hop, a step or a jump. You shoot it from the hip like a MT round kick. Its hard to explain on here. I should make a video of it for you.

    The guy who just won the K1 is a great MT kicker. Watch his base leg to see how MT round kicks are different from standard TKD round kicks thrown from the side guard. Watch the rear leg kicks. Crap, what was his name .. Michael McDonald! Yea. He won the K1 USA Grand Prix. He's a good kicker. Here is his profile: http://www.k-1usa.net/html_documents/fighters/fighters.asp?fighter=1

    That being said, the advanced pivot in TKD is kind of a little hop. TKD jump kicks don't have to be high and fly in from across the room. Personally, I think jump kicks are only practical when they are low and at close range. Switch guards on a rear leg front stamp with a slight jump and you can sometimes even stop a guy shooting on you. Using a jump instead of a pivot can give you some mobility and speed.

    In fact, that is the difference between MT rear leg round kicks and TKD rear leg round kicks. MT kicks are whipped in from the hip and the step/pivot is an afterthought (like sort of a low jump only not tucking your base leg up into your crotch) while TKD kicks follow a pivot that seriously telegraphs them. You may not know where he is kicking but you certainly know he is kicking when he steps his other leg in so he can pivot. MT kicks are instant at any angle.



    >> Perhaps it was because I had an inherent skill for the science and never deviated from natural principles. - Miyamoto Musashi 1643
  8. jkd_fighter is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    953

    Posted On:
    9/26/2002 11:06am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    mercurius,what you said is all true if you are talking about WTF. did you even read the first part of my reply? BECAUSE I WAS TALKING ABOUT ITF!jump kicks do work, when you do them low. in ITF we always use are hands and get points for them! and believe me you can do a jumping hook kick very fast. have you ever been to a good itf school? prabaly not.
  9. Miguksaram is offline
    Miguksaram's Avatar

    Day Tripper/Dream Weaver

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    3,523

    Posted On:
    9/26/2002 1:11pm

    supporting member
     Style: Shorei-ryu & Kumdo & TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    First, let me state the obivious:
    1) The TKD fighter really sucked and was very slow.

    2) WTF/ITF do not train the same as MT so, under MT type rules (as shown in the video) they are at a disadvantadge.

    3) WTF sparrers' main technique is a 45 degree roundhouse kick. It is quick to land the point.

    Now that the obivious is stated let's get on to the post at hand.

    The big thing that TKD has that MT does not practice extensively (notice, I said does not practice extensively, not doe not have or does not practice) is spinning kicks and jummping kicks. Now, like any other technique these have advantadges and disadvantadges. You do have to time these to make them work (like any other technique).

    The question should be if the MT would do as well under WTF rules. :)

    Jeremy M. Talbott
    http://www.homestead.com/koreanma/index.html
    http://www.geocities.com/jns1994/MSA.html
    Jeremy M. Talbott

    Quote Originally Posted by Phrost
    "Bullshido isn't just a place to hang out when you're browsing the net. We really are trying to accomplish something fucking extraordinary here that nobody's ever had the balls to do before."
    Quote Originally Posted by D.Murray
    "Which is better, to learn the truth, or to enjoy the illusion of being right when you are not?"
    Quote Originally Posted by hangooknamja88 View Post
    My definition of Ki is our energy. it's rather hard to explain it in words. It's not some mystical type of energy like white people...


    SUPPORT BULLSHIDO!
  10. Nihilanthic is offline

    Decafinated white belt.

    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    JacksonFAILLE Flor-i-duh
    Posts
    1,521

    Posted On:
    9/26/2002 2:02pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    umm... WTF rules are extremely restrictive. Its slap fighting with your instep. They'd be thrown out for not playing the little game and actually hitting someone :P

    <Me> John, what do you know about Zen Buddhism? <John> *smacks me*
    <John> I'd have to smack you sometime...
    Katana, on 540 kicks: "Hang from a ceiling fan with both hands. Flail your feet out and ask people to walk into you as you hit their face."
Page 1 of 8 1 2345 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.