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  1. Phrost is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/17/2007 3:20pm

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     Guy Who Pays the Bills and Gets the Death Threats Style: MMA (Retired)

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    Karate

    Discussion thread for Karate. If you would like to add a comment, click the New Reply button
  2. Petter is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/17/2007 4:15pm


     Style: BJJ, judo, rapier

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    I'm not sure how relevant the Dojo-Kun is to a general karate article. Legend has it that Funakoshi wrote it, which would make it applicable to Shotokan (but probably no more than Shotokan); however, no one's been able to prove that and it seems more likely that some JKA guy wrote it, which makes it applicable only to a particular group of Shotokan people. (Funakoshi himself wrote the Niju-Kun.)

    But people who have actually practiced in more than one group are probably better qualified
    to judge this than I am. I for one have never heard the Dojo-Kun spoken or met anyone whose club "used" it.

    Also: The "(From left)" sentence at the beginning of the Japan section seems to refer to a photograph, but I don't see any actual pictures.
  3. Phrost is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/17/2007 4:36pm

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     Guy Who Pays the Bills and Gets the Death Threats Style: MMA (Retired)

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    Thanks for your input, it's sincerely appreciated.
  4. colonelpong2 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/17/2007 7:18pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Petter
    I'm not sure how relevant the Dojo-Kun is to a general karate article. Legend has it that Funakoshi wrote it, which would make it applicable to Shotokan (but probably no more than Shotokan); however, no one's been able to prove that and it seems more likely that some JKA guy wrote it, which makes it applicable only to a particular group of Shotokan people. (Funakoshi himself wrote the Niju-Kun.)

    But people who have actually practiced in more than one group are probably better qualified
    to judge this than I am. I for one have never heard the Dojo-Kun spoken or met anyone whose club "used" it.

    Also: The "(From left)" sentence at the beginning of the Japan section seems to refer to a photograph, but I don't see any actual pictures.
    A number of styles use various Dojo-Kun. During my early TMA days we had one, and we had absolutely no affiliation or association with shotokan
  5. Petter is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/17/2007 7:23pm


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    Quote Originally Posted by colonelpong2
    A number of styles use various Dojo-Kun. During my early TMA days we had one, and we had absolutely no affiliation or association with shotokan
    But then -- given that you say "various Dojo-Kun" -- it's not the same Dojo-Kun as the article mentions, is it? So it's still not right to say "this is the Dojo-Kun of karate".
  6. colonelpong2 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/17/2007 7:46pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Petter
    But then -- given that you say "various Dojo-Kun" -- it's not the same Dojo-Kun as the article mentions, is it? So it's still not right to say "this is the Dojo-Kun of karate".
    Ah, didnt see the article! Thought the thread was suggesting just shotokan had a dojo-kun and was pointing out that is not the case
  7. patfromlogan is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/17/2007 8:17pm

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    I hope I did ok in editing the dojo kun part. I just included Shotokan and Kyokushin as examples and put in links and simplified it. I also put in a definition of dojo, which led me to actually read the definitions and learn something.

    We didn't use the kun much in KK, though I certainly read it many times. In wado we used to chant it in response to Sensei, which was actually fun - everyone in seiza yelling stuff.
    "Preparing mentally, the most important thing is, if you aren't doing it for the love of it, then don't do it." - Benny Urquidez
  8. patfromlogan is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/17/2007 8:22pm

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     Style: Kyokushinkai / Kajukenbo

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    Also changed Dojo Kun first sentece to Karate schools have a dojo kun, so as to clear up the wrong impression, since kun differs from school to school.
    "Preparing mentally, the most important thing is, if you aren't doing it for the love of it, then don't do it." - Benny Urquidez
  9. patfromlogan is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/17/2007 8:24pm

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     Style: Kyokushinkai / Kajukenbo

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    "Some schools are criticized for claiming to teach practical martial arts despite a lack of two-person training to develop needed attributes. An instructor may believe that practicing kata suffices to develop the necessary skills."

    How about adding, "said instructors are morons and their students often get wiped out."
    "Preparing mentally, the most important thing is, if you aren't doing it for the love of it, then don't do it." - Benny Urquidez
  10. Petter is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/17/2007 9:18pm


     Style: BJJ, judo, rapier

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Not all schools have a Dojo-Kun, though. In fact, not all Shotokan groups do -- we are one, and we have none. Also, I'm told that the popular translation of the well-known Kun used by some Shotokan groups is pretty weak. This site has some articles on the subject; this page contains a link to a PDF with different translations (and commentary). I don't speak Japanese, so I can't comment on their accuracy.
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