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  1. SuperGuido is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    7/19/2007 4:57pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Unfortunately, I'm not like you.

    As I get older, I realize that I just don't like getting punched in the face anymore.

    So...instead I settle for having my face wedged into a man's crotch before passing out from lack of oxygen.

    I figure that while I'll never win any MMA competition, I don't really care. I enjoy grappling, and I have firearms, a car, and sprinting for self-defense.
      #31
  2. eyebeams is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/19/2007 5:34pm


     Style: Kickboxing/Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've seen it as a sort range punch. There's a Bas Rutten clip on youtube where he throws what he calls a "karate punch" at short range, but the heel comes up when he punches farther.
      #32
  3. Vieux Normand is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/21/2007 3:13pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 血鷲

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Shitloads of variable apply. People have been KO'd by heels-down-punches as well as by the usual kind. Kind of like those on-again-off-again debates of vertical versus horizontal fists, closed-fists-versus-palm-heels, which side forward, and so on. KO's have resulted from all of the above, in myriad different situations. What matters beyond that may be a matter of where you train, your build, personal preferences, and so on.

    In other words, (*snif*) can't we all get along?
      #33
  4. bobyclumsyninja is offline
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    :)

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    Posted On:
    7/21/2007 4:31pm

    supporting member
     Style: Ex-Tiger KF, ex-SanDa

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hopefully..... but if we can't get along...I want to be the guy punching with good form...increases the odds of surviving the exchanges.
      #34
  5. hl1978 is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/20/2007 5:08pm


     Style: Aunkai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...81301858251744

    The above hour long video shows a olympic lifting seminar from Dan John who goes over a number of good positions/exercises to reinforce the fact that if you want to generate the most power, at least in a lifting context, the heel is the best way to go. The postural positions are dead on for power generation.

    Olympic lifters are concerned while power generation in the vertical plane, while we as strikers are concerned with the horizontal. That being said however, the involvement of the legs, and the use of the torso to transmit power via the legs in a connected fashion is no different.


    I use the same thing for my own training and sparring. Particularly the scapula orientation to open the chest, the weight on the heels, hip orientation instead of loading the quads etc. These postura changes are useful, but it takes a lot of conditioning to make it work as well.
      #35
  6. UpaLumpa is offline
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    Exasperated.

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    Posted On:
    12/20/2007 5:22pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Wow power lifting and standing on one leg punching.
    Does stupid come naturally or do you have to work at it?
      #36
  7. UpaLumpa is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/20/2007 5:25pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Oh, by the way:

    AND:
      #37
  8. hl1978 is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/20/2007 5:34pm


     Style: Aunkai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by UpaLumpa
    Wow power lifting and standing on one leg punching.
    Does stupid come naturally or do you have to work at it?
    It must come naturally for you due to your lack of thought on the subject, clearly expressed by posting pictures not germane to the thread at hand ;)

    Olympic lifting coach Dan John is teaching how to utilize the structure of the body to bear a load. Learning to utilize this same structure (rather than merely musculature) to generate striking power, or increase the max you can squat competitively is a useful thing.

    If you want to debate mobility or lack there of when utilizing the heel, thats fine (Dan John clearly states in the beginning that sprinters etc are on their toes), however, for generating maximum force you don't go from the toes. If you believe thats the case, do your next workout in the gym on you toes or move some furniture standing on your toes.
      #38
  9. UpaLumpa is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/20/2007 5:37pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Are you really contending that this is irrelevant to this thread? Do you understand how legs work?

    And sprinters don't start on their heels not just because of mobility but also because they want to use these:


    As for lifting, the sorts of lifts you're implicitly bringing up are largely irrelevant except that they use these:


    which are also important in punching. But using these too:

    is better than some bullshit about surface area.
    Last edited by UpaLumpa; 12/20/2007 5:42pm at .
      #39
  10. hl1978 is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/20/2007 5:42pm


     Style: Aunkai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by UpaLumpa

    Are you really contending that this is irrelevant to this thread? Do you understand how legs work?
    Sure, I understand how the legs work, and humans only have two of them. I believe deer actually walk on their toes, like dogs due to the way their bodies are formed, they can't walk on the heel assuming their bone structure is similar.

    Why are the lifts irrelevant, because they only go in a vertical plane? The same posture works in a forwards motion as well.


    did you watch the video? Your post was way to quick after mine to have done so.
    Last edited by hl1978; 12/20/2007 5:45pm at .
      #40
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