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  1. Upyu is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/24/2007 11:47pm


     Style: Aunkai, Tokyo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by bobyclumsyninja
    In this vid, I'm sparring a thai boxer, he's got about 20lbs on me. neither of us has time to bust a horse stance, or go onto the heels. I didn't get knocked over, because I've unlearned flat feet syndrome...not because I can hang in the skills dept. He trains all the time, I only home train and throwdown these last few months now.
    I dunno, watching your vid, it's pretty obvious the other guy's more stable than you are, pretty much every kick you do bounces off, meaning the stability of your supporting leg is for crap...
    And it really has nothing to do with the weight he has on you.

    Quote Originally Posted by bobyclumsyninja
    well, if you're on flat feet, I suppose there would be a bad recoil, if you don't develope some compensating skills...the thing is...if you're on the balls of your feet...you can do more projection of force into the target...especially when that target is a moving, thinking, reacting person.


    There's a fluidity of motion that's lost on flat feet.
    You really don't get at what's being said.
    No one's saying that sparring isn't necessary.
    Nor that you should be actually moving around on the heels of your feet.
    Just that there are certain drills that develop a certain body skill that can't be developed otherwise in a different context.

    Sparring is sparring, and you need it to be able to make your **** work in a live scenario.

    Then again I'm not the only one that said that ^^;
    :munky2:

    How many times do I have to say that you shouldn't be using a front stance/reverse punch while sparring before you get it? Its a drill like jumping rope.

    Quote Originally Posted by bobyclumsyninja
    In this vid, I'm sparring a thai boxer, he's got about 20lbs on me. neither of us has time to bust a horse stance, or go onto the heels. I didn't get knocked over, because I've unlearned flat feet syndrome...not because I can hang in the skills dept. He trains all the time, I only home train and throwdown these last few months now.
    Dude, you didn't get knocked over cuz you were going light on each other. It's obvious who controlled the distance, movement, and pace even at light contact. ^^;

    I'm sure you got visions in your head of kids doin forms, and funny breathing, one step-two step-tango sparring, and navel gazing going on...but you'll be in for a surprise ;)

    That being said, I know talk is cheap, so if you're ever out in Tokyo, or know someone who's out in Tokyo, feel free to come over. No one that's met Ark in the Aunkai yet has called BS on this stuff after feeling it close up.
    (Course it helps that he was an international Sanda Champ back in the day and figured out how to work this stuff into ring fighting).

    Oh...and for any peeps in the East Coast, we will probably be in DC at some point towards the end of Maym, if someone feels like calling BS and attending a mini throwdown.
    Last edited by Upyu; 12/24/2007 11:49pm at .
      #111
  2. From Bell2Bell is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/25/2007 2:37am


     Style: The Sweet Science

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Upyu
    And it really has nothing to do with the weight he has on you.

    What do you mean by this? Are you saying that you don't think weight matters?
      #112
  3. Upyu is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/25/2007 3:17am


     Style: Aunkai, Tokyo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by From Bell2Bell
    What do you mean by this? Are you saying that you don't think weight matters?
    All things being equal, of course weight matters.

    I'm just saying that before you even get into the size/weight differences, there's other structural/movement/postural issues that obviously need a lot of work on, and that's more or less the reason he was pushed around in the light sparring vid he presented.
      #113
  4. JohnnyCache is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/25/2007 4:23am

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     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Upyu
    I dunno, watching your vid, it's pretty obvious the other guy's more stable than you are, pretty much every kick you do bounces off, meaning the stability of your supporting leg is for crap...
    And it really has nothing to do with the weight he has on you.
    Bob's got swiss-cheese holes in his kicking form including over-tensing his torso before he throws one, so he's a ways from kicking hard with any foot orientation.

    After re-reading this thread, from what I can tell, you're not espousing that punches be thrown flat footed routinely, you're saying that there is something you can do/feel in a punch that indicates proper body mechanics, and this is easier to feel when flat footed, so you advocate learning it flat footed and then integrating the material into realistic fighting.

    Is that a correct summation of your POV?
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
      #114
  5. bobyclumsyninja is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/25/2007 6:13am

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     Style: Ex-Tiger KF, ex-SanDa

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Upyu
    You really don't get at what's being said.
    No one's saying that sparring isn't necessary.
    Nor that you should be actually moving around on the heels of your feet.
    Just that there are certain drills that develop a certain body skill that can't be developed otherwise in a different context.
    The thread is "punching from the heel"...which is considered by many to be bad form...drills, sparring or otherwise. Punching drills that don't train the punches to be used, suck. And it's not about how tough some old guy's class is...or how tough he is, or his students...it's about what works best, bio-mechanically.....

    The same people, using good form, would have even more power....and if they're only drilling the one punch, but do the other way in freeform sparring or fighting...then they're not really helping themselves much.

    And yes, I'm not a genius kickboxer, but as someone who's only 155-160 without the fat (174 with)...giving up 40 lbs of muscle to a guy...it's not a bad idea to stay on the balls, and spar as one has trained. But you said that's not the point (it is though).

    This thread is like saying, if you train it wrong, you'll get it right when it counts. By y'all's own admission, this isn't how you would spar/fight, and it's not conditioning.

    It's training to punch, in a way, that's disadvantageous to the martial artist.
      #115
  6. bobyclumsyninja is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/25/2007 6:18am

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     Style: Ex-Tiger KF, ex-SanDa

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    p.s. that sparring wasn't as light as you might think, or as it may have looked. The high kicks I blocked, would have knocked me silly...and the low rounds had oomph...perhaps you're referring to the pace.

    (I have to add, my main goal was to avoid getting that kick in the head, so I used soccer kicks, so I wouldn't turn, and give him a target) DONT COPY MY KICKING...it'll get you hurt....I was borrowing from my height, to land.

    I guess I should add, those kicks do hurt..here's me with a ten lb advantage in weight.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LHmsXT71Pk

    now I'll stop with the attention whore bit.
    Last edited by bobyclumsyninja; 12/25/2007 6:26am at .
      #116
  7. Upyu is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/25/2007 6:43am


     Style: Aunkai, Tokyo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyCache
    Bob's got swiss-cheese holes in his kicking form including over-tensing his torso before he throws one, so he's a ways from kicking hard with any foot orientation.

    After re-reading this thread, from what I can tell, you're not espousing that punches be thrown flat footed routinely, you're saying that there is something you can do/feel in a punch that indicates proper body mechanics, and this is easier to feel when flat footed, so you advocate learning it flat footed and then integrating the material into realistic fighting.

    Is that a correct summation of your POV?
    Bingo,
    Finally someone with a brain. :)

    Following that train of thought, I'll say that if you "train" in a certain way, it not only allows you to "feel" proper body mechanics, it allows you to access and train the body in a way that you can't train in the normal paradigm.
      #117
  8. bobyclumsyninja is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/25/2007 7:15am

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     Style: Ex-Tiger KF, ex-SanDa

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Upyu
    Bingo,
    it not only allows you to "feel" proper body mechanics,
    Seriously man, it can't train you to feel proper body mechanics for a punch, if you're not using proper body mechanics for a punch. :BangHead: what am I missing here?
      #118
  9. JohnnyCache is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/25/2007 1:38pm

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Upyu
    Bingo,
    Finally someone with a brain. :)

    Following that train of thought, I'll say that if you "train" in a certain way, it not only allows you to "feel" proper body mechanics, it allows you to access and train the body in a way that you can't train in the normal paradigm.
    Please remember when we discuss who has a brain and who has a certain IQ and whatnot, this thread did begin with someone saying Rampage Jackson throws punches flat footed.

    In a live context.
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
      #119
  10. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/25/2007 2:07pm

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     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyCache
    Please remember when we discuss who has a brain and who has a certain IQ and whatnot, this thread did begin with someone saying Rampage Jackson throws punches flat footed.

    In a live context.
    Not only that; that same person was using a video seminar on oly lifting to "prove" his point :confused3
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

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    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
      #120

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