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  1. From Bell2Bell is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/23/2007 11:10pm


     Style: The Sweet Science

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If there is something here that's news to me I'd like to see it, but I have to agree that typed words are a lousy way to explain something like this. Throwing a punch is pretty straight forward; the reason punches are so effective is because they are wonderfully simple. Any time I hear someone using esoteric physics and anatomy to describe a punch warning bells start going off. The hardest punchers in recent memory throw their punches (George Foreman, Mike Tyson etc.) the same way the fighters in any reputable boxing gym do... they're just a hell of a lot better at it.
      #101
  2. bobyclumsyninja is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/23/2007 11:12pm

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     Style: Ex-Tiger KF, ex-SanDa

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    you can't sidestep hard training to get hard. I know when I've hit someone real good, and I try to remember roughly what was happening...over time...you get a sense of what works well, and where.
      #102
  3. Upyu is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/24/2007 6:12am


     Style: Aunkai, Tokyo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Erm...like I said before, refer to Luans post about this stuff. He used to train at Alliance and he'd never felt this stuff before. Its in the "Throwing 100kg peeps with the pinky" thread.

    As for "you can't sidestep hard training to get hard"
    I'll just say that most of the Shooto kids that take his class punk out after 15 minutes cuz their bodies can't take the strain of the warm ups
      #103
  4. melk is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/24/2007 6:53am


     Style: *********

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by melk
    Ok I will see you your personal experiences and raise you hundreds of years of fighting experience and fifty years of BioMechanical research done in the USSR that bread some awesome boxers.

    The most efficient way to strike is in a Bio-kinetic chain works like this, Calf-Thigh-Hip-Abdominal-Shoulder-Arm. If you stay on the heel, you eliminate half of that Bio-kinetic chain, thus eliminating half your available power, and half of your efficiency as you will need to generate more power, and thus use more energy in abdominal/thoracic rotation, shoulder and tricep exerhertion. Not to mention you eliminate a great portion of your body weight from being brought to play(an essentially free form of energy).

    Forget striking for one second and look at power throwing, shot-put and discus. Distance there equates directly to power generated without worrying about feeling any kind of reaction/recoil. You will notice that since the advent of the science of Biomechanics(C. 1940), no thrower has thrown "from the heel." You may have the classic Russian one heal down and one up, with a quick change as the hips are shifted, but the drive come from the ball of the foot.

    As far as being a way to train biokinetic chains to later be used in a different manner, this also does not add up in a scientific sense. In a fight, whether serious competition, or for your life, especially one with any kind of serious stress, a title fight for instance, or exhaustion, the later rounds, you will unconsciously fall back upon your training. Whatever you have drilled 10,000 times, that is what you are going to do. If you have drilled throwing a strike from a position of disadvantage(one which limits your manueverability), then that is what you are going to do, and in the end you will get flattened.
    Yes I am quoting myself. Simply because you seem to want to deny the science of it. See above.
      #104
  5. bobyclumsyninja is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/24/2007 8:57am

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     Style: Ex-Tiger KF, ex-SanDa

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Upyu
    As for "you can't sidestep hard training to get hard"
    I'll just say that most of the Shooto kids that take his class punk out after 15 minutes cuz their bodies can't take the strain of the warm ups
    I mean, by that statement, there's no easy quick way, to get used to giving and receiving punishment in the form of punches, kicks, chokes, subs, etc....beyond just doing it. Most of fighting is just that...the drills are supplemental...but the sparring is essential..and primary.

    one round of sparring at med contact, is worth 50 rounds of drills...and no drill on earth can do as much good for teh fighting skillz as one round of hard contact. Hard lessons, are the best lessons learned.

    ...no magic thing...if you don't have a good chin...that's it. Doesn't have to be fair, to be true.
      #105
  6. Torakaka is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/24/2007 9:18am

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     Style: Kitty Pow Pow!!!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Upyu
    Erm...like I said before, refer to Luans post about this stuff. He used to train at Alliance and he'd never felt this stuff before. Its in the "Throwing 100kg peeps with the pinky" thread.

    As for "you can't sidestep hard training to get hard"
    I'll just say that most of the Shooto kids that take his class punk out after 15 minutes cuz their bodies can't take the strain of the warm ups
    No offense to Luan, but I wouldn't exactly look to him for improving my punching technique.
    Ranked #9 internationally at 118lbs by WIKBA http://www.womenkickboxing.com/wikba...rch%202009.htm
      #106
  7. bobyclumsyninja is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/24/2007 10:13am

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     Style: Ex-Tiger KF, ex-SanDa

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'd also like to mention, that pushing off a flat rear foot for a stiff jab works, but it has to be angled out, and it's a plant move, not supposed to be mobile as much as drive the person back. even that uses a little hip torque though.

    The best drill for it? down and backs on the mat...with focus mitts etc. Jab step jab step jab step bob/weave, and repeat forever (that's what it feels like).
      #107
  8. Dirty Rooster is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/24/2007 4:29pm


     Style: Basic Self-Defence

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Upyu
    The more you "feel" the punch or kick when you hit the pad, the more energy is being rebounded back into your body and NOT being transferred into the pad.
    If you feel almost relatively "nothing" when you strike it, means that the power is being efficiently transferred into the target.
    I'd say this is absolute bullshit. It just jumped out of the screen at me and I felt compelled to quote it. Terrible. Why did you have to go and say crap like this Upyu?
      #108
  9. Upyu is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/24/2007 8:59pm


     Style: Aunkai, Tokyo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Rooster
    I'd say this is absolute bullshit. It just jumped out of the screen at me and I felt compelled to quote it. Terrible. Why did you have to go and say crap like this Upyu?
    Uh...cuuuz its true?
    You probably haven't felt anything like this yet, its as simple as that.
    Anyone in tokyo that wants to call BS are welcome to drop by class ;)
      #109
  10. bobyclumsyninja is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/24/2007 9:12pm

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     Style: Ex-Tiger KF, ex-SanDa

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Upyu
    Uh...cuuuz its true?
    You probably haven't felt anything like this yet, its as simple as that.
    Anyone in tokyo that wants to call BS are welcome to drop by class ;)
    well, if you're on flat feet, I suppose there would be a bad recoil, if you don't develope some compensating skills...the thing is...if you're on the balls of your feet...you can do more projection of force into the target...especially when that target is a moving, thinking, reacting person.

    There's a fluidity of motion that's lost on flat feet.

    In this vid, I'm sparring a thai boxer, he's got about 20lbs on me. neither of us has time to bust a horse stance, or go onto the heels. I didn't get knocked over, because I've unlearned flat feet syndrome...not because I can hang in the skills dept. He trains all the time, I only home train and throwdown these last few months now.

    The point is, things change so quickly in freeform sparring/fighting...there's no time for all that theory, and matrix like "everything's perfect, and perfectly timed always" bollocks. I might suck, but I didn't let him get into punching range(or at least he didn't land one)....let alone bollocksy short punches.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7zZLxbDU8I
    Last edited by bobyclumsyninja; 12/24/2007 9:15pm at .
      #110

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