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  1. DerAuslander is offline
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    Valiant Monk of Booze & War

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    Posted On:
    5/18/2010 8:35am

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: BJJ/C-JKD/KAAALIII!!!!!!!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Dude, that timeline is complete bullshit.
  2. technonaut is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/18/2010 8:37am


     Style: Ranger Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    1) Is it common for folks to teach Hapkido with TKD-style kicking and punching?

    Going back to the original post (below), I am trying to help answer question #1.





    "Real" Hapkido?


    I've trained in Hapkido from two different organizations:

    * An affiliate of Hwang In-Shek (Eagle Hapkido, Toronto)

    * Moo Gong Kwan Hapkido with Choi Kwang-Suk (Peterborough, ON)

    Both of them did progressive training to sparring and had the following features:

    * Aiki-style wristlocks.
    * Kicks in big circles -- nothing like taekwondo. No chambering.
    * Committed punches and strikes with a heavy emphasis on relaxation.

    Moo Gong Kwan had a couple of forms, too. That school flatly denied there was any legitimate Hapkido in Toronto and recommended a local Kuk Sool school there.

    Now I'm posting this because I keep reading about Hapkido around here being described as a TKD/Aiki hybrid, but that wasn't my experience at all. The hand and foot techniques were totally different. So I have a couple of questions:

    1) Is it common for folks to teach Hapkido with TKD-style kicking and punching?

    2) Where did the big, circular, relaxed Hapkido strikes come from?


    Quote Originally Posted by DerAuslander108 View Post
    That's great and all, but what does it have to do with the discussion in question?
  3. BackFistMonkey is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/18/2010 9:07am

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     Style: Recovery-Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think you don't understand Real .

    It means the high end functional version of a commercial watered down martial art .

    Do you have the Teh Realz ?

    1. Is there video footage of you or someone from your school actually sparring full contact ?

    2. Is hard sparring in a full range ( striking and grappling ) format a common thing in your school ?

    3. Does your school properly utilize leg kicks ? ( hint : the answer is not OMG KNEEPLOSION !!! )

    4. Has your school ever won any full contact competitions ?

    5. Is there footage of anyone from your school fighting ?

    It takes four yes's to even began to qualify for the Real .
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhi108 View Post
    Nuke a unborn gay whale for Christ.
    I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
    BILL HICKS,
    1961-1994
  4. technonaut is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/18/2010 4:08pm


     Style: Ranger Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Not hard core, but a darn good school

    First, let me clarify. They aren't my school at present. I only studied there for a year (there = White Tiger TKD in Cary, NC). I'm aware of such organizations as Akban and when you say hard core I think I know what you mean. So let me say right from the start that, no, I do not think they are hard core in the sense that you probably would mean it.

    To be clear, I am not asserting that I think they are some sort of incredible, hard core, authentic traditional instruction school. They are a commercial institution, but I think they do a darn good job.

    When I started in martial arts 20 years ago, classes were 2+ hours long. We'd lean again the wall and practice a kick over and over and over until you got it right. Then we'd do it for a while longer just to be sure you got it. Today, classes all seem to be 45 minutes to an hour, and they just don't have the same intense focus on technique as when I first started. A certain amount of sloppiness seems to be more acceptable these days, that would have never flown way back when. I've attended a number of local schools to visit, and I thought they were all a bit sloppy, to be honest, so by my own standard, I don't even know of a "good" school. But, White Tiger is the best that I've found locally, and their HKD instruction is - bar none - the best program available in the area.

    They are a commercial school which I think is always going to affect what's taught, and how it's taught. Are the techniques watered down to be more palatable for mass instruction? Not sure. The largest HKD class might be 20 people on a big night - usually less. I don't think there's a reason to water things down for such a niche audience.

    I'll try to answer your questions in line below.

    Quote Originally Posted by Backfistmonkey View Post
    I think you don't understand Real .

    It means the high end functional version of a commercial watered down martial art .

    Do you have the Teh Realz ?

    1. Is there video footage of you or someone from your school actually sparring full contact ?

    ** Most likely, though I don't happen to have it. Master Chang was a captain of the Korean Tigers, helped coach the US Olympics Team in 2000, and coached a number of other competitive teams as well (US national team in 97, NC state team from 98-2000, and several others.) I am pretty sure you could find footage if you really wanted it. Additionally, they have a special competition team and I am guessing footage of them competing in tournament could be found as well.

    2. Is hard sparring in a full range ( striking and grappling ) format a common thing in your school ?

    ** I assume you mean in the sort of sense as what Akban does. In TKD, the answer is yes. They spar like maniacs especially on the competition team. In HKD, the answer is they have tried doing some things but people end up getting significantly hurt. Permanently ruined back, broken shoulder, just to name a couple. So they tend to go very light in this regard because of the injuries.

    3. Does your school properly utilize leg kicks ? ( hint : the answer is not OMG KNEEPLOSION !!! )

    ** In the true sense of how to nullify an attacker, no, they don't.

    4. Has your school ever won any full contact competitions ?

    ** Great question. They have a truly amazing trophy wall but honestly I don't know what they're all for. You have my curiosity piqued and I am going to try and find out.

    5. Is there footage of anyone from your school fighting ?

    ** See above (#1). Additionally, the school (White Tiger TKD) competes in a lot of tournaments and they do well. The instructors are all Master level, none of this first dan black belt opening a school stuff.

    It takes four yes's to even began to qualify for the Real .
    **** In closing, let me say that you've piqued my curiosity. Since I have been considering resuming study there, I think I'm going to look into the questions you posed. Are they hard core? No, probably not in the sense of what you mean and by my own standards of old school instruction. But I do think they are the best school in the area for someone wanting to learn some self defense.
  5. technonaut is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/19/2010 3:14pm


     Style: Ranger Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Probably so

    Quote Originally Posted by DerAuslander108 View Post
    Dude, that timeline is complete bullshit.
    They put a ton of work into coming up with school names, instructor names, and dates for the various flavors of Hapkido.

    Realizing some of the rest is off, how about the Hapkido part? (I don't pretend to know, but would love to see an accurate history.)
  6. TNMP is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/19/2010 4:46pm


     Style: taekkyon, judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Correcting that timeline would mean getting rid of almost everything in it.
  7. monkeypoo8762 is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/25/2010 10:59am


     Style: TKD & HKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by technonaut View Post
    First, let me clarify. They aren't my school at present. I only studied there for a year (there = White Tiger TKD in Cary, NC). I'm aware of such organizations as Akban and when you say hard core I think I know what you mean. So let me say right from the start that, no, I do not think they are hard core in the sense that you probably would mean it.

    To be clear, I am not asserting that I think they are some sort of incredible, hard core, authentic traditional instruction school. They are a commercial institution, but I think they do a darn good job.

    I've attended a number of local schools to visit, and I thought they were all a bit sloppy, to be honest, so by my own standard, I don't even know of a "good" school. But, White Tiger is the best that I've found locally, and their HKD instruction is - bar none - the best program available in the area.

    They are a commercial school which I think is always going to affect what's taught, and how it's taught. Are the techniques watered down to be more palatable for mass instruction? Not sure. The largest HKD class might be 20 people on a big night - usually less. I don't think there's a reason to water things down for such a niche audience.



    **** In closing, let me say that you've piqued my curiosity. Since I have been considering resuming study there, I think I'm going to look into the questions you posed. Are they hard core? No, probably not in the sense of what you mean and by my own standards of old school instruction. But I do think they are the best school in the area for someone wanting to learn some self defense.
    I was one of the first students at whitetiger and am somewhat saddened that the first introduction of my old school to BS happened this way, but what is done is done.

    To try and answer backfistmonkey's questions:

    1. No. I have never seen or heard of any footage of Masters from WT competing in any type of full contact competition. All of the Korean masters went to Yong-In University and/or spent major time with some of the elite Korean competition and demonstration teams so I am sure they have gotten into their fair share of scraps. They are also some of the toughest motherfuckers I've ever met (specially Man S Seo).

    Unfortunately that doesn't always reflect in one's students. The Hapkido program at WT is full of effective techniques taught by very dedicated and qualified masters but the dedication of the students to perfect those techniques is not always there.

    2. No, "hard sparring in a full range format" is not part of class typically. Of course it is done over and over again during black belt testing. They also do adrenal stress training with a "redman" suit allowing students to use full contact against a live opponent, but that is not what you were asking about.

    3. No. Most kicking in class is part of warm-ups and is TKD style.

    4. No, we have had students win grappling and judo competitions, but no full contact events.

    5. No, the only footage I have ever seen is from TKD competitions and demonstrations.

    So no, it is not teh realz. As far as I can tell, there is only one "teh realz" school in the RTP area of NC, and it is full of monster-douches that only wear affliction shirts and tapout gear.

    The founding Master (Chang Do Hyun) is no longer at White Tiger and currently teaches elsewhere in NC. In addition, all of the Korean Masters have left and are starting their own schools or working at other schools with their friends. As of right now White Tiger has found a handful of other Masters to come teach class but I have no idea of their quality/qualifications.

    All previous HKD black belts from that school were KHF certified. I received my 1st Dan from Master Chang and am also a 3rd Dan in TKD.

    Terribly sorry to hijack this thread but I couldn't stand to see a place I spent over 15 years at and love deeply get misrepresented. I would ask that any further questions about mine and technonaut's former school be sent by pm or a new thread.

    P
    lease resume the flame war about DRAJJ and HKD, it is quite informative and entertaining.:5football:5football:5football
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