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  1. mobydaddy is offline

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    Jun 2007
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    Posted On:
    8/01/2007 2:45pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Hapkido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by bradtacs
    Interesting, after seeing that first video there I would say that I can see a pretty direct correlation between that style of kicking and what we do, even the footwork circling back back and forth.

    Of course these guys are wearing silly outfits are WAY more flowery and dancelike in their execution but I would say I can see the root movements are very similar.
    I'm jealous of their flowery dance, too, man. I also think we should spar in brightly coloured robes...
  2. eyebeams is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/01/2007 9:25pm


     Style: Kickboxing/Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt W.
    One more thing...



    Is that just a different romanization for Wang In Sik, the HKD master who starred in several Jackie Chan movies?
    Yes it is. Same guy.
  3. eyebeams is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/01/2007 9:31pm


     Style: Kickboxing/Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by bradtacs
    If I can jump in, yes it is the same guy.

    I personally have not trained directly with GM Hwang but my instructor here in Toronto trained with him for a number of years. Really his personal style of striking is a whole different beast than almost any other HKD lineages out there. Very circular basis lots of relaxed power-generation and dynamic whip like motion.

    I am not too familar with, Moo Gong Kwan.

    Eyebeams are you someone i know from East West?
    I trained at the school that was on Simcoe and Adelaide in the early 90s.

    Moo Gong Kwan's North American headquarters is up here in Peterborough. It's run by an 9th degree named Choi Kwan-Suk.

    Both use big circles in striking, though the Hwang affiliate was bigger on relaxing and whipping shots.
  4. eyebeams is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/01/2007 9:33pm


     Style: Kickboxing/Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by saipher
    Hmm. Are y'all refering to this Mu Gong Kwan?

    US Hapki Assoc
    http://www.ushapki.com/pages/about_g...ster_gagne.php

    It looks like GM Gagne trained under Choi Kwang Suk.
    Yeah, that's him. He lives here in town.
  5. eyebeams is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/01/2007 9:37pm


     Style: Kickboxing/Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by bradtacs
    I would say that any school teaching Hapkido forms is not a group to take seriously, Hapkido has never taught forms.

    It is my understanding that a lot of the more flowing and loose style of Hapkido striking we do at our school gets its root from the Korean folk game of Taekkyon. The punching utilizes the same power generation and rhythm ideas meshed with a western boxing style of delivery. IMHO anyone who sees this style of striking would not mistake it for TKD it really has a very different flow and energy to it. It also fits into the circular root of Hapkido a lot better than the very linear striking found in TKD.

    I don't know too many specifics about the history of Taekkyon nor can I speak to it's legitimacy but judging from this explanation of the way their kicking works I can say it does sound like it has a a lot of similarities to our kicking style. All of our kicks naturally unfold from the waist and use the hip flexors or back muscles to kick as opposed to our leg muscles and chambering.

    http://www.taekkyon.or.kr/en/

    Taekkyon powers up the strength with the rhythmical movement from the harmony of knee bends and waist elasticity. And it usually just thrusts the opponents' faces and bodies, or attacks at their legs to bring them down. It also pull or push the opponents' legs to bring them down when attacked with kicks. But during a match, hitting on the vital parts and attacks on purpose of damaging is strictly prohibited.
    Sounds familiar. I train with an HKD 1st Dan/TKD 3rd Dan who likes to do the HKD style kicks when he really wants to pound something. Since we both have experience with the same method we've talked about the differences off and on.

    About the forms: They were there at Moo Gong Kwan but they weren't big or long. Here's one form, in full:

    1) Lead Knife Hand
    2) Rear Punch
    3) Rising Kick.
  6. bradtacs is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/02/2007 9:07am


     Style: Hapkido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by eyebeams
    I trained at the school that was on Simcoe and Adelaide in the early 90s..
    Yup that is with my instructor Mr. Stewart we have moved into the market now.
  7. MannyFromNYC is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/20/2007 9:48pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Vee-Arnis-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by saipher
    A lot of TKD schools add joint locks, breakfalls, throws/rolls, weapons and call it Hapkido. So that causes some confusion. I never learned crescent, back, twist kicks while taking TKD as a kid.

    I think it's generally agreed Hapkido has roots in daito-ryu. Choi Yong-sul claimed to have studied under Takeda in Japan. Choi's students also had backgrounds in Japanese arts like judo - hence the throwing techniques. Ironically, the Chinese characters for Hapkido and Aikido are the same (according to wiki): 合気道 I guess both mean "Way of Coordinated Power/Energy", yet HKD is the more agressive art.

    Point being that HKD is an adaptive art, and either creates, develops or borrows techniques from other MAs. Hence, the locks, throws, breakfalls, weapons, breathing exercises, and grappling (some schools).

    I'm not sure what kind of circular strikes you're refering to though. I could speculate how circular knife and ridge hand strikes were adapted from the rigid versions in TKD.
    The jury is still out on that: Hapkido's Daito-Ryu origins. I have yet to hear anyone from the Daito Ryu camp who will acknowledge Choi Yong sul's claims and there is really no hard evidence to back it up. If Daito Ryu were really the same as traditional Hapkido, I imagine that issue would have already cleared up by now: side-by-side comparison of techniques.
    Last edited by MannyFromNYC; 11/21/2007 1:10am at .
  8. Inzenkan is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/28/2007 5:42am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: NOYFB Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Traditional Hapkido and Daito Ryu Aikijujutsu are very similar, but in no way, shape, or form the same. Daito Ryu was created by Sokaku Takeda and taught to as many people as he could come into contact with. Among these were two young men he had taken in and spent a great deal of time training. These men were Morihei Ueshiba and Choi, Yong Sul. Ueshiba took the softer aspects of Daito Ryu and created Aikido. Choi took the harder aspects and created Hapkido. Evidence of this can be seen in the techniques. While Hapkido has been distinctly influenced by Taekwondo, it still holds most of the original properties inherited from Daito Ryu.

    The controversy and conflict comes from Choi's claim that he had received the Menkyo Kaiden for Daito Ryu, and was in fact the inheritor of the style. This can not be proven by either side as the original Menkyo Kaiden was lost in transit from Japan to Korea, and the records of Daito Ryu dating back that far were lost in a fire.

    Either way, all three styles (Hapkido, Aikido, and Aikijujutsu) are effective and practical. Ultimately that's what matters.



    Jeremy

    "Don't listen to this guy, he's an idiot..." - Ninja Grandmaster Dr. Soke Prof. Sifu Ashida Kim
  9. DCS is online now
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    Posted On:
    11/28/2007 4:17pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 柔道

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Inzenkan
    Traditional Hapkido and Daito Ryu Aikijujutsu are very similar, but in no way, shape, or form the same. Daito Ryu was created by Sokaku Takeda and taught to as many people as he could come into contact with. Among these were two young men he had taken in and spent a great deal of time training. These men were Morihei Ueshiba and Choi, Yong Sul. Ueshiba took the softer aspects of Daito Ryu and created Aikido. Choi took the harder aspects and created Hapkido. Evidence of this can be seen in the techniques. While Hapkido has been distinctly influenced by Taekwondo, it still holds most of the original properties inherited from Daito Ryu.
    Which techniques are you pointing as evidence?. Video where said techniques (the HKD and the DRAJJ) can be compared.

    What are these "original properties" you're talking about?

    The controversy and conflict comes from Choi's claim that he had received the Menkyo Kaiden for Daito Ryu, and was in fact the inheritor of the style. This can not be proven by either side as the original Menkyo Kaiden was lost in transit from Japan to Korea, and the records of Daito Ryu dating back that far were lost in a fire.
    The burden of proof about the Menkyo Kaiden is not in the "japanese" side. And much less about Choi being the inheritor of the style. Takeda Sokaku had sons for that: Tokimune inherited the style. There was no need to look outside the family.

    There is a big step from: "Choi trained under Takeda Sokaku" (nothing special: a lot of people trained DRAJJ under Sokaku) to: "Choi received Menkyo Kaiden and was designated as inheritor of style".

    Is something like: "2000 years ago a guy kicked another's guy ass" => "TKD is 2000 years old". No way.
  10. variance is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/28/2007 4:30pm


     Style: EF UM A

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Inzenkan
    Traditional Hapkido and Daito Ryu Aikijujutsu are very similar, but in no way, shape, or form the same. Daito Ryu was created by Sokaku Takeda and taught to as many people as he could come into contact with. Among these were two young men he had taken in and spent a great deal of time training. These men were Morihei Ueshiba and Choi, Yong Sul. Ueshiba took the softer aspects of Daito Ryu and created Aikido. Choi took the harder aspects and created Hapkido. Evidence of this can be seen in the techniques. While Hapkido has been distinctly influenced by Taekwondo, it still holds most of the original properties inherited from Daito Ryu.

    The controversy and conflict comes from Choi's claim that he had received the Menkyo Kaiden for Daito Ryu, and was in fact the inheritor of the style. This can not be proven by either side as the original Menkyo Kaiden was lost in transit from Japan to Korea, and the records of Daito Ryu dating back that far were lost in a fire.

    Either way, all three styles (Hapkido, Aikido, and Aikijujutsu) are effective and practical. Ultimately that's what matters.



    Jeremy

    "Don't listen to this guy, he's an idiot..." - Ninja Grandmaster Dr. Soke Prof. Sifu Ashida Kim
    You quote Ashida kim and you feel you can say what is effective and practical?
    I hope you are a troll.
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