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  1. EternalSpring is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/10/2011 9:55am


     Style: Ving Tsun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Southpaw View Post
    I've got to say this is about the stupidest thing I've ever heard in my life...and I think it has a lot more to do w/ not wanting any of your students to actually know what the **** they are doing (to protect your own position as the teacher).

    If I am paying you money to teach me to fight, teach me. Don't sprinkle knowledge across a bunch of people and expect me to learn from those ****-tards.

    God damn the next time I see my old Sifu I'm going to hug him. I'm so lucky to have trained with someone who actually cared about producing people who could fight.
    Well, that wasn't just my interpretation but rather something my sifu taught me that was passed down from his sifu and so on. For one, not all Sifu's focus solely on producing fighters, and even the ones who do dont always make fighters out of all their students. If you look through the lineage of at least my Si Tai Gong Moy Yat you'll see that the "kung fu life" and "kung fu family" are two very important concepts. What I mentioned may be stupid to you, but imo nothing is more retarded than assuming that every teacher/sifu is going to have the same method/approach or the same goals in teaching kung fu. At least from what I know, both Yip Man and Moy Yat have produced at least some good fighters, but I guess that opinion will vary with each person.

    Also, most people in this thread seem to be addressing learning kung fu from a standpoint of "I paid you now teach me how to fight ,bitch!" This just isn't the case in all kung fu schools or with all kung fu teachers. Plus, if a teacher was just bullshitting his students to protect his own position and not teaching them how to fight then that would screw the teacher over as well, at least eventually. And if students who want to learn how to fight are paying a sifu who isn't teaching them how to fight then I'd put the blame on the students for being idiots. We've got all these people complaining about how fucked up Yip Man's teaching methods were, but hey, I think Yip Man's students were probably (hopefully) able to think for themselves and choose whether they'd want to stay or not.

    Besides, in the other part of my post that you didn't quote I clearly said that teaching students different things to share with each other didn't mean that the lessons weren't revisited at some other point in time or that the teacher was being lazy. It's not just "sprinkling knowledge across a bunch of people and expecting other students to learn from them," it's more of a way to help the students grow faster while growing as a family. People can try and ignore the value of the kung fu family, but that's just being stubborn since all the discussion in this thread seems to be focused on Yip Man and students that bai-si'd under him and were disciples, so apparently the value of being accepted into the family is at least very important.
  2. EternalSpring is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/10/2011 9:59am


     Style: Ving Tsun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    and on another note, I think that if Yip Man were just trying to get money for his addiction then he would've just milked Bruce Lee and taught him the rest of the jong
  3. CrackFox is offline
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    You have to work the look.

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    Posted On:
    10/10/2011 11:16am

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This was a lame necro, but I think it might be worth it as "TCP/IP Man" has to be the best username I've ever seen on any martial-arts related website.

    Oh, wait we're not in YMAS - do I have to post something on topic? OK, here goes.

    The idea that you will learn form your fellow students, and that often you will have to work to make a technique work for you instead of copying like a robot is common to plenty of martial arts. A good teacher will foster this by giving you space to work through these things, while still providing support and feed back. This does not mean a quick demo then fucking off to the office. Your instructor should only leave the training area during class in exceptional circumstances.
  4. Southpaw is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/10/2011 12:44pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by EternalSpring View Post
    Well, that wasn't just my interpretation but rather something my sifu taught me that was passed down from his sifu and so on.
    Oh I'm not blaming you for this...I've seen it many times in many different schools.

    Quote Originally Posted by EternalSpring View Post
    For one, not all Sifu's focus solely on producing fighters, and even the ones who do dont always make fighters out of all their students. If you look through the lineage of at least my Si Tai Gong Moy Yat you'll see that the "kung fu life" and "kung fu family" are two very important concepts.
    I guess that's fair...but I think there should be truth in advertising. If you are not interested in producing people who can fight...you should tell people who come to your school that.

    Quote Originally Posted by EternalSpring View Post
    What I mentioned may be stupid to you, but imo nothing is more retarded than assuming that every teacher/sifu is going to have the same method/approach or the same goals in teaching kung fu.
    .
    I'm not assuming anything but rather pointing out my opinion. If people want to learn a martial art and not be able to fight that's their decision.

    Quote Originally Posted by EternalSpring View Post
    At least from what I know, both Yip Man and Moy Yat have produced at least some good fighters, but I guess that opinion will vary with each person.
    I've definitely seen them both produce some great fighters...

    Quote Originally Posted by EternalSpring View Post
    Also, most people in this thread seem to be addressing learning kung fu from a standpoint of "I paid you now teach me how to fight ,bitch!" This just isn't the case in all kung fu schools or with all kung fu teachers. Plus, if a teacher was just bullshitting his students to protect his own position and not teaching them how to fight then that would screw the teacher over as well, at least eventually. And if students who want to learn how to fight are paying a sifu who isn't teaching them how to fight then I'd put the blame on the students for being idiots. We've got all these people complaining about how fucked up Yip Man's teaching methods were, but hey, I think Yip Man's students were probably (hopefully) able to think for themselves and choose whether they'd want to stay or not.
    I think you are demonstrating a little naivete here...but that's ok. Again...I go back to the truth in advertising desire. It's ok if you are a Sifu who focuses on family, culture, and the what not...but make sure your students know that before they start paying to to teach them to defend themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by EternalSpring View Post
    Besides, in the other part of my post that you didn't quote I clearly said that teaching students different things to share with each other didn't mean that the lessons weren't revisited at some other point in time or that the teacher was being lazy. It's not just "sprinkling knowledge across a bunch of people and expecting other students to learn from them," it's more of a way to help the students grow faster while growing as a family. People can try and ignore the value of the kung fu family, but that's just being stubborn since all the discussion in this thread seems to be focused on Yip Man and students that bai-si'd under him and were disciples, so apparently the value of being accepted into the family is at least very important.
    See...here is where you lose me. **** a kung fu family and **** your lineage (not you in particular). I'd join the fucking Elks Club if I wanted new friends. I think that is largely why (overwhelmingly) kung fu isn't worth a **** in contemporary society. The whole "acceptance and family" idea in Kung Fu is totally artificial. I train with an MMA team and I can tell you that THEY have figured out the idea of 'acceptance and family'. You train together hard enough for long enough and those bonds are there. You shouldn't have to test your students on the "core values" of your kung fu school to build a family atmosphere. If kung fu students started punching each other in the face more often those family ties would naturally form.
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