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  1. Permalost is online now
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    7/20/2007 12:32am

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     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I wouldn't say the high side kick is not the most used kick in sanshou.
  2. bobyclumsyninja is offline
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    :)

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    Posted On:
    7/20/2007 5:36am

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     Style: Ex-Tiger KF, ex-SanDa

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have to agree. Most fighters/students just aren't comfy throwing high kicks...sometimes in sparring, yes; but almost never in competition..and even then..to throw them with power is near impossible when someone moves around on you and wont let you target easily. San Da gives you most points for throws...and clean ones get more. Sending out high kicks, against a good san shou guy, is tantamount to giving 3 points away, and planning a visit with the mat/floor. Here is one of the guys I spar. His name is Will...he's very good at high kicks...and throws....and punches....and knees.....etc......and when he spars me...nowhere is safe...inside, outside, I just have to be smart and careful to stay solid in my guard.

    For you TKD guys, watch the hip turn with the kicks..for power...adjust your kicks accordingly when going hard. So they hurt the guard, if not the body/head..kicking through the target. witht the shin, not the foot...so as not to hurt the foot...that's san shou (and muay thai and other stuff, just not tag sports)
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=WsA5YM68_Q8


    EDIT: not trying to come of as all knowing...the only thing I know is pain, because of guys like Will (red shorts). TKD has great focus on speed, like kung fu and other arts...for full contact...some adjustments have to be made for some things to have impact.
    Kicking my thigh with your foot, barefoot, will hurt the foot more than my leg...I'm used to shin kicks. Not kicking through means not disrupting their balance, and allowing them to be grounded to catch the kick or counter while you're still doing the kick...especially roundkicks. Wade through, or swim past tap kicks of all kinds, and plant some good shin kicks to the thigh. You'll win the trade.
    Last edited by bobyclumsyninja; 7/20/2007 5:44am at .
  3. Chuan is offline
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    Welterweight

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    Posted On:
    7/20/2007 10:02am

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     Style: Roberto Traven BJJ (Blue)

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PPlate
    Boby,
    There must be a standard response to a high sidekick right, since these are your most often used kicks in sanshou? What defense does your teacher teach for these?
    Low sidekick to support leg.
  4. MastaChance is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/20/2007 10:55am


     Style: Muay Thai/BJJ/Boxing/MMA

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    [quote=bobyclumsyninja]

    For you TKD guys, watch the hip turn with the kicks..for power...adjust your kicks accordingly when going hard. So they hurt the guard, if not the body/head..kicking through the target. witht the shin, not the foot...so as not to hurt the foot...that's san shou (and muay thai and other stuff, just not tag sports)
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=WsA5YM68_Q8



    Why does everyone think that TKD is a tag sport, in WTF it is full contact continueous sparring, just like a KB match, the only difference is no punching to the face. Well how come they don't allow punching to the face but they allow kicks to the face, maybe because it is like anything else the competition is set up to show case the most impressive aspects of the art, in this case kicking, you have to displace your opponent's body weight in order to score, it's called trembling shock, they have to move three feet from there origianl posistion when struck otherwise it does not count as a point, KO's are allowed, and it is full contact, no control needed. So does this explain it a little better for everyone who downs TKD, or do some of you need to spar with some good TKD guys...
  5. PPlate is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/20/2007 11:33am


     Style: Muay Thai, Boxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuan
    Low sidekick to support leg.
    Chuan, thanks for the response. What about an easier defense, how do you block it? With both forearms with the gloves on your forehead?
  6. Chuan is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/20/2007 12:32pm

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     Style: Roberto Traven BJJ (Blue)

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PPlate
    Chuan, thanks for the response. What about an easier defense, how do you block it? With both forearms with the gloves on your forehead?
    I have my lead arm resting against my body, hand pointing towards my kicking foot. My rear hand covers the side of my head/face and I lean back at an angle. The lean and the arm position act as a sort of slice to deflect the any impact in case the kick ends up being a little lower than expected. The kick should be on the inner thigh/ hamstring area and not on the knee joint. If timed right the person kicking you have a nice stumble.

    or you can front kick the kicking leg right above the knee.
  7. PPlate is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/22/2007 10:44am


     Style: Muay Thai, Boxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Chuan, thanks man, that's really helpful. It's hard to picture the hand position though, do you have a link to a picture or something?
  8. bobyclumsyninja is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/22/2007 11:33am

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     Style: Ex-Tiger KF, ex-SanDa

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Why does everyone think that TKD is a tag sport, in WTF it is full contact continueous sparring, just like a KB match, the only difference is no punching to the face.
    If you took away my stiff jab to the face...I'd have to do some outlandish things to land good solid shots beyond the body slugfests I've often seen. The points part also stops you from eating a good shot to give a great one...when it's a points thing and not till they can't continue. Not that it sucks, there are world class TKD men in Boston...I wouldn't down it all. But the fastest and most natural way to drop someone is to concuss their head, or bust their nose, or cuff behind the ear...etc.... and the arms are the most natural limbs for us. Like kickboxing without leg shots?!!?? it's such a gap, that the carry over benefit could be limited, if the most frequent tough testing of the skills is in a format so limited. I like punching, so do most. If the question is why do I say tag sport...because tag your it is how it looks to some. Like WWE, it's not easy, but doesn't mean it's comperable to fighting all out.

    And all the fancy stuff goes out th e window in %95 or more of real fights. It's the reason I block the area....not catch and stuff...if you misjudge, it's KTFO time.
  9. Arbiter is offline
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    punch-drunk

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    Posted On:
    7/22/2007 11:43pm

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     Style: SanDa / MMA / Kung-Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    i'd say that high sidekicks are not most common but still a fairly common technique in sanshou/da, depends on the fighter and their particular skills and preference, some can pull them off well and others gravitate towards other techniques. theres a high risk/reward to the kick and it has to be set up right and have the right mechanics to be successful.

    Quote Originally Posted by bobyclumsyninja
    I have to agree. Most fighters/students just aren't comfy throwing high kicks...sometimes in sparring, yes; but almost never in competition..and even then..to throw them with power is near impossible when someone moves around on you and wont let you target easily. San Da gives you most points for throws...and clean ones get more. Sending out high kicks, against a good san shou guy, is tantamount to giving 3 points away, and planning a visit with the mat/floor.
    .
  10. Arbiter is offline
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    punch-drunk

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    Posted On:
    7/23/2007 12:34am

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     Style: SanDa / MMA / Kung-Fu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PPlate
    Boby,
    There must be a standard response to a high sidekick right, since these are your most often used kicks in sanshou? What defense does your teacher teach for these?
    standard block/catch response to straight on sidekick to head is to shoot your rear hand guard hand fwd right at the incoming kick (fairly aggressively) to stop the kick with around the palm of the glove while the lead hand scoops and underhooks the heel under the achilles. you may be fading or moving in depending on variables. note that if the angle of the kick is steep yuo may not be able to scoop with palm up for the high kcik as you would for a mid level kick but you can still come across with your lead hand and catch it on the back of the glove. first priority is obviously just to stop the kick from smashing your face; getting the catch is just the bonus. from there the the response depends on dynamics but there are different types of strikes, sweeps and throws this can set up. anything from tossing the leg away to offbalance while you throw a cross overhand or hook to the head. or a common sweep may be to pendulum/swing the foot and leg around to your side as you step in at an angle around the kick, underhook or overhook depending on which side you move in to as you let go with the other hand which momentarily guards you from a possible counter-punch, step or shuffle also depending on which side and kickout/sweep or step behind the post leg as the free hand does a push/strike high on the body or head to topple the person as you trap their escape movement with leg or kick out the leg for the takedown.

    the above assumes you are in a good protective crouch with your chin protected with your lead shoulder and your hands in the right place to form a decent guard and make the required block. there are a lot of specifics to make it work right but it is reliable once youve gotten the basics down.

    in many cases it is just better to move and slip your head to one side or the other to avoid this high kick and shoot in with takedown or strike and an angle around the kick, or sometimes if you get caught by the kick its better just to keep both hands up in front to take the kick and try to stay in a good position to counter afterwards.
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