Parry above the waist kicks or not?

[Torakaka]

When I studied Enshin (Low kicks + No face punches) we were taught to parry straight kicks. Now that I'm at a gym that competes in American kickboxing (no leg kicks + head punches), I was told not to parry straight kicks.

I know there aren't too many hard and fast rules when it comes to fighting, but what's the general consensus on parrying?

I like to catch or parry them. It can open your opponent up for some nice counters.

[bobyclumsyninja]

My favorite tool is the heel bone somehow driven in to the belly/hip....so I try to make sure I don't eat any...I know what they do to people way tougher than me. Fancy stuff makes me vunerable on defense...but can work magic on attack. I just cover up the area, float with the punishment...while moving in and away from the blow...then it's my turn. Nobody tries to sidekick me much, I'm too long limbed...and punch hard...it's not worth the trade for most.

I wish blackie chan would post our sparring match at the last NY throwdown...or whoever filmed it....I landed a nice solid sidekick on him with his jumping in flailing bollocks.

[PPlate]

As for whether it's easier or harder to parry with gloves, well it hurts less with gloves. The actual problem is that there is less that you can do after you parry the kick, and more of a threat if you get faked. In Enshin if a parry a kick I can easily kick the supporting leg or throw the guy, if I get faked I'm not going to popped in the head. In American kickboxing, if I parry the kick kick,I may be able to go over the top, but they button up pretty tight when they throw the kicks, so I feel like I'm limited in my counters. Now if I get faked then I can easily eat a punch in the head.

I was just wondering what most of the people here did, or thought.

Gloves or no gloves doesn't matter, parry (and scoop if you can) the kick with your palm, not fingers. If you're not wearing gloves, be careful of fingers when you scoop.

If you're afraid of getting punched in the head when you get faked, setup a drill where your partner can throw real teeps or he can fake and throw a punch. If he fakes, and you drop your hand by reflex, slip the punch and counter with your own.

Another method which the Thais like to use is this. Instead of parrying when you see the kick coming, you move slightly back while keeping your hands up. Only when you feel the kick touching you do you use your front inner-forearm to scoop the kick and lift it up to off-balance him. In muay thai, typically if we get the other guy like this, we usually want to immediately push forwards and make him hop back to lose balance (he'll try to clinch you). Then you either kick his leg (you can't) or you lift up his leg or bounce him off the ropes and aim a knee at his head (preferble) or body before his hands hit the canvas.

No leg kicks = training under unrealistic rules = limited skillsets

I'd advice you to change schools too.

My favorite tool is the heel bone somehow driven in to the belly/hip....so I try to make sure I don't eat any...I know what they do to people way tougher than me. Fancy stuff makes me vunerable on defense...but can work magic on attack. I just cover up the area, float with the punishment...while moving in and away from the blow...then it's my turn. Nobody tries to sidekick me much, I'm too long limbed...and punch hard...it's not worth the trade for most.

I wish blackie chan would post our sparring match at the last NY throwdown...or whoever filmed it....I landed a nice solid sidekick on him with his jumping in flailing bollocks.

boby
What do you sanshou guys do to defend head level sidekicks? What basic counters do you follow up after that?

C'mon, give some tips to your MT brudder.

[Permalost]

I think the utility of parrying comes down to whether or not you can exploit the back quickly (due to ruleset or training). When sparring with friends and there's not really a ruleset, I like to parry to the outside and go for a standing RNC to knee in back position. You can also follow this with a double leg from behind, which is a nice way to dump someone forward (for sanshou you get your points, in self defense you're in a nice position to fieldgoal kick the guy in the stones)

What do you sanshou guys do to defend head level sidekicks? What basic counters do you follow up after that?

Sometimes the kick gets caught on your shoulder, so you either trap it with your hands and reap/sweep the standing leg, or you hold it there and run them out of the ring for a takedown (most people can't hop backwards as fast as you can run forward.

boby
What do you sanshou guys do to defend head level sidekicks? What basic counters do you follow up after that?

C'mon, give some tips to your MT brudder.

I also like to slap it to the side as I step back, then spinning back kick to the guts.

[PPlate]

Sometimes the kick gets caught on your shoulder, so you either trap it with your hands and reap/sweep the standing leg, or you hold it there and run them out of the ring for a takedown (most people can't hop backwards as fast as you can run forward.

Codos, kinda risky trying to catch a high kick with your shoulder isn't it? Or do I not understand you correctly?

How exactly do you trap a high side kick with your hands?

[Permalost]

Codos, kinda risky trying to catch a high kick with your shoulder isn't it? Or do I not understand you correctly?

How exactly do you trap a high side kick with your hands?

I don't exactly catch it with my shoulder. Sometimes, they just end up there because lots of people don't pull the kick back along the same line- they just drop it. Once its there, you "trap" it by sandwiching it on both sides with your gloves and forearmss.

So its mostly incidental. I don't like to try to catch high kicks because its kind of tricky and when a foot is coming for my head I prefer to cover and move.

[bobyclumsyninja]

boby
What do you sanshou guys do to defend head level sidekicks? What basic counters do you follow up after that?
C'mon, give some tips to your MT brudder.

I've never been hit by one...though it's been tried once or twice. For high side kicks...and this might sound corny, but be prepared to have a stiff guard. In class, one way we drill sidekicks, if we're both in gloves...is to hold the forearm verticaly in front of you...and let them sidekick it, somewhere on the glove/wrist.....If you think of it that way..but with both arms in the guard...it might help. Block the area with your gloves/forearms...just like for stampkicks...and if your elbows are in enough, you can be ready for mid and high level sidekicks. Shin check for low rounds...move away and block area for high rounds.

I'm not a catcher...I'm more of the kicker than the kickee. I block the area more than anything fancy...and partly because of that...I haven't been dropped (yet) with legitimate strikes in sparring (exept by my teacher on occasion). (yes, from others, but with nutshots). Lebel teaches San Da, I think, you could ask him...he seems to know his ****.

If you are going to try to catch high kicks...you'll have to block the kick with the opposite hand, brought across to cover the chin/temple while fading away from the kick a bit, to take some sting off....and then clamp with the same side forearm/glove and counter/sweep etc...but I wouldn't in sparring...much less a match, or fight (my fight record is 0-0...so you know)

after you block the kick...any kick...if you block the area...then the world is your oyster. You can do almost whatever you want in the moments when they are trying to reset...and you're just chilling cos you didn't do anything fancy or time consuming. Just pick good shots/combos....don't shinkick knees...some guys get flinchy, and raise the leg when you counter, or block quickly.....there's nothing I'd less like to do, than introduce my shin, to a kneecap...it sucks...I can't say this enough...it and elbows are the main reason I thump my shins.

[Permalost]

Against high roundkicks, I've been trained to pivot and cover with one forearm, then underhook the leg with the other arm so you can throw, run them out, or attack their standing leg. This is almost the same as mid level round kick defense- pivot the body out of the way if you can, shield with one arm, and use the other to hook over or under the leg. I have seen instructionals where the leg is overhooked against the ribs, but against a hard kick, I don't think its a good idea.

[bobyclumsyninja]

Yeah, some guys catch them and eat a little to the ribs, to get a good solid body lock on the leg...for sweeps, throws or counter strikes...not me, I'm thin there...and guard the ribs at all costs. I'll always opt for move away and block area, then counter strike without a clinch..but I'm rangy, so it's in my best interests to stay outside. Sidekicks to the belly, when they commit their weight...and as long as I wait until they honestly charge...I have a high percentage lately of landing them. I keep a high guard in class when sparring, so high rounds usually just hit my glove anyway. Mid rounds go off my arms/forearms...and ideally my shins check the low ones. When my kicks do get caught...if I have time...I'll jab the nose, from whatever position I can manage with one leg up...who cares, most people let go after even taps...and I can throw pretty hard shots considering the fucked angle. If they don't let go, I get thrown sometimes and have to remember to keep my head up..or punched so keep my guard hand up when jabbing back at them. Doesn't sound solid, but it works better than trying to wrench my leg away...and getting thrown at a weird angle. Not the only thing to do, but it's keeping me safer.

[PPlate]

Boby,
There must be a standard response to a high sidekick right, since these are your most often used kicks in sanshou? What defense does your teacher teach for these?