TKD: Proper Front-kick/Snap-kick question

***DerAuslander*** · Posted On: 7/16/2007 10:15pm

Originally Posted by mobydaddy

We do something similar in my hapkido school, we call it a push front kick. We don't actually "snap" the leg but we throw it relaxed and let our hip generate the force. Turning the back leg allows you to release it and vastly increases your range. I find this kick has very little stress on the knee as long as its released forward, not upward.

Generally we don't throw this above waist height and it's very practical in sparring if you target your opponent's front hip, because landing it and pushing causes them to fold at the waist presenting their head for a following punch, kick, knee etc. You can also use it to collapse a front knee backwards, but that could really limit your choice of sparring partners.

I've seen Muay Thai guys throw a similar kick, but usually to the chin or face, I think it's considered a major insult if you throw it at someone, probably because it's an instant takedown if you are slow or miss. Tony Jaa does it in Ong Bak here (00:59):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9u-U...elated&search=

but to me doing it that high just spells takedown, unless you filming a movie...

What?

Insult?!?

If you can throw any kick to the head, you have to worry about getting taken down.

You have to worry about getting taken down off of any kick, any level.

People still kick.

Kicks still score.

**EternalRage** · Posted On: 7/17/2007 2:40am

The kick itself is not insulting of course.

But I believe in Thai culture, touching someone's face with your foot is considered a great insult. Not sure what that means for Thai kickboxers, but the cultural stigma is there I think.

***DerAuslander*** · Posted On: 7/17/2007 2:54am

Originally Posted by EternalRage

The kick itself is not insulting of course.

But I believe in Thai culture, touching someone's face with your foot is considered a great insult. Not sure what that means for Thai kickboxers, but the cultural stigma is there I think.

Until I hear a Thai FOB tell me this, I ain't gonna believe it. It sounds too much like people explaining that Korean arts kick a lot because it's insulting, or that the hands were to be preserved or some such nonsense.

**EternalRage** · Posted On: 7/17/2007 10:44am

I'm going to facebook a Thai buddy, in the meantime I must rely on my google-fu:

http://www.renegadeshaolin.com/articles.htm

Originally Posted by Khun Kao Charuad

Push Kicking opponent in the face. This is the most insulting thing you can do in the ring. You would not make a Thai as angry if you said very explicitly derogatory remarks about his parents. In Thai culture (and many Asian cultures) the head is considered the most important part of the body (practically holy!), the feet the lowliest. To push kick them in the face is to say that you are beneath the dirt under my feet. When a Thai push kicks to someone's face, he does not strike with it, rather he brushes his opponents face with it, heightening the insult factor.

http://asiatours.net/thailand/info/customs.html

The head is the most sacred part of the body, so should not be touched. The feet are the least sacred, so when sitting they should not point at anyone - most Thais sit on the floor with their feet tucked under their bodies behind them. To point, particularly with foot, is extremely insulting.

http://www.horizonmuaythai.com/Thailand/culture.html

The feet in Thailand are considered spiritually as well as physically the lowest part of the body. Don’t step over people’s legs, even in a crowded place such as on a train; wait politely for them to move out of the way. Do not point things out or pick things up with your feet. And do not wave your feet around people's heads! If you accidentally touch someone with your foot, apologise.

**mobydaddy** · Posted On: 7/24/2007 3:33pm

BAHA! Vindication!

***DerAuslander*** · Posted On: 7/24/2007 6:01pm

Originally Posted by mobydaddy

BAHA! Vindication!

Wrong again, bro.

The kick may be an insult in Thai culture for the reasons ER outlined above, none of which have anything to do with takedowns.

Your whole premise on high kicks being dumb because of takedowns is still...dumb.

**EternalRage** · Posted On: 7/24/2007 10:23pm

Originally Posted by Errant108

Wrong again, bro.

The kick may be an insult in Thai culture for the reasons ER outlined above, none of which have anything to do with takedowns.

Your whole premise on high kicks being dumb because of takedowns is still...dumb.

HAhahah yeah, I agree with Errant. Moby, your reasoning makes no sense. You can get taken down by just standing there. I do not think standing there is considered an insult.

**mobydaddy** · Posted On: 8/01/2007 1:43pm

Originally Posted by Errant108

Wrong again, bro.

The kick may be an insult in Thai culture for the reasons ER outlined above, none of which have anything to do with takedowns.

Your whole premise on high kicks being dumb because of takedowns is still...dumb.

I was pretty sure it was considered an insult, but I was just taking a wild guess as to why - that wasn't really my point.

I don't think high kicks are dumb by any means, on the back end of a combination or with your opponent off-balance they are a serious KTFO, but anyone that thinks that kicking above the waist doesn't expose you more to a take down than 'just standing there' (as per EternalRage) is a fricking butterfly catcher.

**juszczec** · Posted On: 8/01/2007 3:12pm

Originally Posted by cyril

Their front-kick is a pushing motion, similar to a side-kick, but with more emphasis on pushing with the ball of you foot (no heel at all). There is no snapping motion (which I believe is bad for you knee anyway, isn't it?) with the leg, but an extending push. Almost not even a strike.

First of all, I don't do TKD. I do use both types of front kicks you describe - I learned them as front thrust kick and front snap kick.

The snapping type kick is a "hurry up and kick them somewhere" kind of thing. Its fast, but not terribly powerful.

The thrusting type kick is a "let's get the hips/body behind this and do some big damage" kind of thing.

The snapping motion is bad if you lock out the knee.

Another strange practice (as far as I am concerned) is that their grounded foot is supposed to pivot outwards 90 degrees. If you're not supposed to have your knee perpendicular for a side-kick push, why the hell would you for a front-kick push?

I have seen this kick done where you keep your body square to the target and thrust the entire pelvis forward and I've also seen it done where you pivot on the supporting leg and turn the entire kicking side of the body into the target. I do the supporting leg pivot, it just feels better to me.

Does the rotation of the hips provide that much more power to this relatively weak kick, or does is this just a stylistic thing that the teacher has been taught?

I think it adds extra body weight behind the kick. YMMV.

The only up and extra is not doing it in a pushing manner. Its gotta be quick and explosive.

Mark

**couch13** · Posted On: 8/01/2007 4:07pm

Originally Posted by cyril

Something has been bothering me about the new school I've just recently joined, and it has to do with their variation on the front-kick, something I'm used to calling a snap-kick.

Their front-kick is a pushing motion, similar to a side-kick, but with more emphasis on pushing with the ball of you foot (no heel at all). There is no snapping motion (which I believe is bad for you knee anyway, isn't it?) with the leg, but an extending push. Almost not even a strike.

Another strange practice (as far as I am concerned) is that their grounded foot is supposed to pivot outwards 90 degrees. If you're not supposed to have your knee perpendicular for a side-kick push, why the hell would you for a front-kick push?

Does the rotation of the hips provide that much more power to this relatively weak kick, or does is this just a stylistic thing that the teacher has been taught?

tl;dr:

I know proper hip rotation can provide the majority of your power with many kicks, but is this the case with a front-kick/snap-kick?

These are two different kicks. I was taught both of them one is the snap kick which is really like a whip striking upward. The front thrust is a kick that acts like a push, but with your leg.

The 90 degree pivot adds power. BTW with a sidekick, your suposed to have your grounded leg rotate about 180 degrees.