Posted On:7/06/2007 11:35am
I thought the body triangle was just used to keep someone from turning back into you once you've mounted their back. I've had tight body triangles thrown on me as a set up for RNC but nothing I would tap to or even complain about and I just kept fighting. The person throwing on the body triangle wasn't trying to dick with me, they were just trying to keep me from turning around, and that takes a lot of pressure. Complaining about the pressure of a body triangle is like complaining about body pressure during side amount (although admittedly I "lighten up" side mount pressure when we are doing a LOT of side mount drilling). But maybe your taining partner has a big stomach or something.
On the other hand I almost tapped last night from a very forceful crossface which managed to hit my "pinched nerve" or whatever has been going on, on that side of my neck, so I know that sometimes pretty common moves can create unusual distress for some training partners. But I didn't tap to the crossface and I didn't complain about it later either (I had a kind training partner who ramped up the pressure gradually, instead of torquing it on in an instant).
On the other hand I once had a training partner tap to a cross face I was applying to him, not because he was a wuss but because I wasn't going anywhere out of the side mount and since we were just stalemated it seemed pointless - after a while - to just hang out and suffer.
Basically I think you should complain about someone that doesn't let up when you tap, but otherwise sometimes discomfort is part of the game.
Posted On:7/06/2007 12:09pm
Style: FMA, Jujutsu/Judo/SAMBO
Originally Posted by Yrkoon9
Cool. Hopefully some 170'er will "squeeze" that armlock just to let you know they could break your arm like a twig.
Oh, chill. I don't hurt them, but anytime a person puts themselves in a bad spot, they should be aware of it, and letting someone get a body triangle on you is definitely a bad spot. But some newbs don't realize this, and only concern themselves with hand fighting off the rnc. So just a gentle squeeze and release lets them know of the possible threat. I'll sometimes even tell them, "Don't worry, I won't squish you." just to give them the heads up.
I'm not sure if it's just a weird ettiquete difference between my judo/sombo club and some BJJ clubs, but we definitely seem to allow techniques that are seen as uncool with other clubs as long as they're done with control and not done spitefully. For instance, cross facing is fine as long as you're doing it to legitimately set something else up. People aren't just dicks for the sheer hell of it, but you will see some stuff that looks a little rougher now and then. Newbs and visitors won't be subjected to anything that could be construed as abusive, but a lot of the folks who've been in the club for awhile will play a bit dirty with each other on occasion. Personally, I don't see the problem with this as long as folks have good control, and aren't out to hurt people.
For newer people, they should at least be aware of the dirty stuff, hence the heads up. Squeeze and release for body triangles. We don't slam people but if I am standing up and a newb is clinging to me in closed guard for zome bizarre reason (it has happened once or twice), I'll just give them a little shake and tell them "This could get you slammed. But we don't slam here." If I've got a less experienced, smaller opponent held in kesa, I'll put just a bit of weight on them, then let up and warn them "Don't let a big guy get you in this position. Start working an escape before they get their weight down and start smashing you."
These people need to be realize when they are putting themselves in a bad position from a combative standpoint, even though they are not always at risk in class.
Posted On:7/06/2007 12:16pm
Well said, Ryno.
Posted On:7/06/2007 12:20pm
Style: Muay Thai/BJJ/Boxing/MMA
Hey what's up man, were you there last night, when that cocky big guy came in, he said he did BJJ at Knuckle Up and was whispering and **** while we were all rolling, well I was the only white belt in the class last night everyone else was blue, he chose me and he was like 190 of muscle, I tapped him 5 times in 5 minutes, he said he will be signing up right away.
Oh and i can realate, ecspeacilly with thse new guys that came into our class that are blues, I tapped one with a triangle, and when he tapped he tapped my face which was more of a hard ass slap, then he comes with a fucking wrist lock, which is legal and all, but if your using both hands to submit my wrist then I can just punch you in the face right, he's like no....So they just hate being beaten by lower ranks that's all.
Originally Posted by WhiteShark
This will probably get Gitmoed but here goes...
I tapped a buddy lastnight in no-gi who is a blue belt (I'm white). I used a body triangle from back mount because he is very slippery and flexible. I eventually got the RNC by using a lot of body pressure to distract him. He complained about it later and said that It hurt his stomach. He never outright complained about using the move but he made me feel guilty about it.
So am I just a jerk or was he a little ego damaged from tapping? I normally wouldn't care but I like this guy and consider him a great training partner and friend.
Posted On:7/06/2007 12:24pm
He just got his ego bruised, you didn't do anything wrong. Even if he'd tapped from the triangle (which I've accidently ended up getting people to do), you wouldn't have done anything wrong.
Originally Posted by Ryno
I'm not sure if it's just a weird ettiquete difference between my judo/sombo club and some BJJ clubs, but we definitely seem to allow techniques that are seen as uncool with other clubs as long as they're done with control and not done spitefully. For instance, cross facing is fine as long as you're doing it to legitimately set something else up. People aren't just dicks for the sheer hell of it, but you will see some stuff that looks a little rougher now and then.
Comes down to school variability, there's nothing your hinting at here that isn't par for the course at my school either.
Posted On:7/06/2007 12:36pm
Style: Relson GJJ
IMO dirty play should be saved for tourneys. The guys I train with are my friends and brothers. I don't want to hurt them and I don't want to be hurt by them. Should I accidentally hurt one of them that's just time I won't get to train with them and better myself.
For gi training digging your elbows in, intentionally friction burning someone's face, etc, etc doesn't help either of you learn good technique.
That said I don't think a body triangle is dirty play, but I have to wonder what % you were going at if it was enough to distract someone (you said is really good) enough to give up a RNC. You shouldn't be squeezing 100% if you're just training.
Posted On:7/06/2007 12:44pm
Catch and release. I do it all of the time with guys who have less experience so that 1) we continue the roll, 2) he gets to try and work out of a bad position, and 3) he doesn't get discouraged by getting subbed every 20 seconds during a 5 minute round. Now, rolling with a cocky spazz is or a guy who needs an ego check is a different story, I will dominate and sub away; but guys who are there to train and learn appreciate it.
At times, the brown belts who I roll with do the same for me.
I have long legs so I love the body triangle and I always work for it rather than the hooks to establish firm back control. BJJ generally is about putting people in uncomfortable positions to submit them or to distract them so you can submit them; nothing wrong with squeezing the body triangle in my opinion. It is similar to driving your shoulder into the guys face in when in side control, or knee rides, or grape vines, or transitional cross facing; it is all part of the game.
The way in which these techs are used is what can make them "dick" moves or not, i.e., using the body triangle like an anaconda without trying to transition or use it to set up another sub, driving the knee into the person's chest while pulling up on the head and leg without transitioning once the guy tries to escape, elbow riding the guys face, etc...these make the person a dick, not the techniques, and someone who I wouldn't train with.
It was an ego thing, you did nothing "dickish" or wrong.
Last edited by GoldenJonas; 7/06/2007 1:32pm at .
BJJ Purple Belt
Posted On:7/06/2007 1:28pm
Style: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu
Body triangle is a solid technique to apply when you take someone's back. In competition, all is fair game, but if you're training you should try to take care of your training partners (i.e. wrenching a body lock with the intention of making him tap from the pressure on his back isnt the best option).
Personally, I'll *sometimes* use a body triangle when I have my opponents back but hes on top and attempting to escape to either side. Most of the time I feel that the body triangle does well to maintain your position, but limits your attacks from the back, so take your pick.
WARNING: BJJ may cause airway obstruction.
Posted On:7/06/2007 2:28pm
Style: Bajillion Joo Jizzu
I don't see what's wrong with body triangle. Unless you've got it kind of high and are crushing his ribs, it really shouldn't do that much pain to someone's stomach - then again, I haven't been put in one that much. Plus a trip to Chipotle's before practice might set it up for some mad discomfort....
Posted On:7/06/2007 2:40pm
Sometimes you get gas caught in your stomach, especially if you're getting stacked. Now assuming that your partner wasn't being a gigantic ***** (which it sounds like he was), what I do in that situation is tap, sit up, burp loudly, then give them back the position.
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