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  1. Teh El Macho is offline
    Teh El Macho's Avatar

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    7/03/2007 2:03pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ellroy
    Hi there; I practice Wado Ryu karate and in a few weeks time I have to undergo spinal fusion at L4/L5 for longstanding low back/leg pain. Has anyone out there had this operation and been able to return to martial arts training? I'm really bricking it the closer it comes to the op so reassurance would be particularly welcome from those who've went through this. Warm regards.:sad9:
    How did you injured your back? Most importantly, what other options (therapy, chiro, steriod anti inflamatories) have you previously explored that had failed? Going under the knife should be the last option on the list.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  2. cyrijl is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/03/2007 2:19pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, MT, Yoga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It is a little sad. The guy comes on here for reassurance and everybody seems to agree that all we have heard points away from surgery,
  3. auschip is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/03/2007 2:42pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I roll with a guy who has a cervical fusion, he limits his risk and will tap if he thinks too much pressure is being put on his neck, but he still rolls and is competitive.

    My wife has a spine fusion at T12, L1, & L2. She however didn't have a choice, as L1 was fractured and T12 developed a compression fracture later. She doesn't train, but based on her experience, any spine twisting would be impossible. Not to mention the fairly long recovery process. Are the using cadaver bone or would you be using your rib/hip bone in the fusion?
  4. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/03/2007 2:48pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by cyril
    It is a little sad. The guy comes on here for reassurance and everybody seems to agree that all we have heard points away from surgery,
    Yeah, but I'm pretty sure every poster has done so with the best of intentions. I can't comment on that, nor give reassurances. I don't know anyone who's have had spinal fusion, but I truly would like to know from the OP what other treatments he has tried.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  5. GoldenJonas is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/03/2007 3:36pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by samnoth
    I've actually seen people benefit from both cervical and lumbar fusions. Those who do not benefit usually did not need it in the first place. My understanding is that a discectomy and fusion are the last option. Usually people wait far longer to have the surgery on the neck because it is a more serious surgery. If someone has properly exhausted all of their other options, therapy, steriod injections, etc., it may be the only thing that gives you relief. I train with a guy who had a lumbar fusion and the surgery itself greatly helped his general quality of life. He is only inching forward in training as he gains confidence in what he can do. He is pain free and enjoying be able to train. He did try everything before having surgery but a piece of disc had actually broken free and was resting on his spinal cord necessitating the surgery.

    There is a relatively new type of procedure, done on an outpatient basis where they use a very small drill to remove part of the disc and relieve pressure on the spinal cord, thecal sac or foramina depending on where the pressure is. Since it is new, there are not any long term studies that I am aware of. The single case I am involved in where the person had a L4-L5 bulge yielded a very good result.

    I have dealt with more than 20 spinal fusions (as an attorney reviewing all the medical records) and more than 300 cases involving confirmed lumbar herniations and ulitimately its a mixed bag. If it were my back, I'd hold out as long as I could until it was my last option. But I don't believe that the knee jerk reaction of it never works is correct. Good luck.
    I agree here with samnoth. Having settled numerous cases from the plaintiff's (I am an attorney in Florida) side which involved both cervical, lumbar, and/or thoracic fusion it was indeed a mixed bag. I found that those who went into the surgery with a healthy lifestyle prior to the injury faired much better than the prototypical couch potato who is overweight and out of shape to begin with.

    REGARDLESS, samnoth is correct in that fusion or the new outpatient scope procedure (my spine doc told me that the new scope method cannot be used for cervical, neck, herniations, of which I have three) is a LAST RESORT. You should have gone through a medicinal trial with rehab, then maybe a round of steroid, botox, or epidural injections, and further rehab BEFORE your ortho recommends surgery.

    If your doc took one MRI, saw a disc impinging on the nerve and immediately recommended surgery and fusion, GET A SECOND OPINION!!!!!
  6. Raining_Blood is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/03/2007 8:50pm


     Style: Wrestling, MT

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My mum had part a disc removed in her back and has never had any problems from it but then again she isnt really that active.

    I know Stone Cold Steve Austin had one possibly two spinal fusions and wrestled for awhile after them. I can however also remember him saying in an interview that his back is now destroyed but dont quote me on that one.
  7. auschip is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/03/2007 11:08pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Raining_Blood
    My mum had part a disc removed in her back and has never had any problems from it but then again she isnt really that active.

    I know Stone Cold Steve Austin had one possibly two spinal fusions and wrestled for awhile after them. I can however also remember him saying in an interview that his back is now destroyed but dont quote me on that one.
    Strangely enough, Stone Cold and my wife had the same Neurosurgeon.
  8. samnoth is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/03/2007 11:49pm

    supporting member
     Style: bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Get a second and maybe a third. And don't go to a second person recommended by your doctor. Its odd how doctors who work together seem to agree nearly all the time. I've seen real doctors and radiologists (as opposed to some of the whores used by both sides in legal matters) seriously disagree about whether a fusion is necessary. I've even had doctors tell me off the record that some doctors who performed fusion surgery should be locked up for assault as the surgery was unecessary.

    Its your body, you will have like suffered for years through pain and will have tried everything. You'll know when its the last resort. Good luck.
  9. ellroy is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/04/2007 4:38am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Taekwondo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks everyone who's replied thus far; I've had this low back problem for 20 years and really have tried every type of conservative treatment so fusion is the last resort. After reading these posts I'm even more concerned about going ahead but I feel like my options are limited. Anyway, I've a few weeks to make my mind up. Thanks again but If tehere's anyone who's actually had the same procedure at L4/L5 I'd love to hear from you.
  10. EternalRage is offline
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    WARNING: BJJ may cause airway obstruction.

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    Posted On:
    7/06/2007 2:41pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Bajillion Joo Jizzu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    my c1-c6 are herniated/dessicated. Just change your training up, dont' train with idiots or jerks, do anything you can to avoid the table...
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