San Soo Goes to War

**Goldenguy** · Posted On: 7/03/2007 4:12am

This is my first thread, and I apologize if it is in the wrong forum. However, I think that it fits in with the MABS mission.

I was thumbing through the latest (August 2007) issue of Inside Kung Fu magazine when I came across an article titled "San Soo Goes to War" authored by Sgt. Taylor Presley. The article descibed his efforts teaching San Soo to shurtas, the Iraqi police. He provided two anecdotes describing incidents of individuals (one about himself and another about a shurta student of his) using San Soo to take down knife wielding insurgents to support his claim of san soo being repeatedly proven effective on teh str33t. (God help me, he actually used that term.) He also repeated the perrenial chestnut of his art being too d34dly for sparring. On top of it all, he then denigrates MMA in general as being something just for sports, irrelevant outside of the octogon.

Just that alone would normally lead me to write him off as a jack ass. However he is there training Iraqi police. He seems to be somebody who has entrusted his life, at least on one occasion, to his Kung Fu prowess.

Basically, what I would like is the perspective from someone with experience in Iraq to shed some light on this. Has anyone else worked with the Iraqi police? Even input from state-side (or whereever you may be) law enforcement personnel would be appreciated.

**Lebell** · Posted On: 7/03/2007 5:57am

Interesting thread!
I would also be interested in people who have had experiences over there not just with Iraqi police, but also in h2h situations.
Are there any, how many times does a situation occure in which military personel have to resort to unarmed techniques?
How is the procedure of subduing someone etc.?

**DON'T SH*T ME !** · Posted On: 7/03/2007 8:03am

I try not to believe anything I read in 'Inside Kung Fu' magazine.

***WhiteShark*** · Posted On: 7/03/2007 9:14am

1) You are reading Inside Kung Fu.
2) KFSS is considered one of the more practical KF styles.
3) Anything can work if they train it alive; in police/military training they often do.
4) Too Deadly is always a bullshit claim but it doesn't always make the style bullshit.

**D Dempsey** · Posted On: 7/03/2007 10:38am

Originally Posted by WhiteShark

2) KFSS is considered one of the more practical KF styles.

Since when? When I trained in san soo is was pretty much ke_po with even less contact if that's possible.

I'd be more interested to know what this guys real job is since I'm willing to bet that it's not to teach kung fu to the Iraqi police. Oh yeah and video or it didn't happen.

**Holy Moment** · Posted On: 7/03/2007 11:02am

2) KFSS is considered one of the more practical KF styles.

Did you confuse it with San Shou?

**kenpostudent** · Posted On: 7/03/2007 11:02am

Originally Posted by WhiteShark

1) You are reading Inside Kung Fu.
2) KFSS is considered one of the more practical KF styles.
3) Anything can work if they train it alive; in police/military training they often do.
4) Too Deadly is always a bullshit claim but it doesn't always make the style bullshit.

I trained about three months at a San Soo school in Bellflower, CA before I joined the Marine Corps. The didn't spar...because the art was too deadly. The techniques were only done in nearly slow motion, until you got to brown belt (about 3-5 years, depending on how much you train). As a white belt, we were not allowed to come within 6 inches of making contact with an opponent.

I have a friend in a bjj class who studies San Soo here in Vegas. She has a different experience. She trains full contact...spars men twice her size. Their school is the exact opposite of my experience in high school.

That being said...that is the only San Soo school that I know of that spars full contact and trains for realistic attacks that are not at "tai chi" speed.

**D Dempsey** · Posted On: 7/03/2007 11:44am

Originally Posted by kenpostudent

The didn't spar...because the art was too deadly. The techniques were only done in nearly slow motion, until you got to brown belt (about 3-5 years, depending on how much you train). As a white belt, we were not allowed to come within 6 inches of making contact with an opponent.

I only trained for about 2 months, but everybody including the blackbelts did the exact same stuff. The attack was almost always a moderate speed step through haymaker with a completely compliant attacker who reacts to your fake strikes. No sparring or pad work what so ever, minimal conditioning, and one or two crappy solo forms thrown in at the beginning of class led to a lack luster experience.

Originally Posted by kenpostudent

I have a friend in a bjj class who studies San Soo here in Vegas. She has a different experience. She trains full contact...spars men twice her size. Their school is the exact opposite of my experience in high school.

That sounds a lot more like sanshou than sansoo, but the 2 get confused a lot so who knows.

**kenpostudent** · Posted On: 7/03/2007 12:00pm

Originally Posted by D Dempsey

I only trained for about 2 months, but everybody including the blackbelts did the exact same stuff. The attack was almost always a moderate speed step through haymaker with a completely compliant attacker who reacts to your fake strikes. No sparring or pad work what so ever, minimal conditioning, and one or two crappy solo forms thrown in at the beginning of class led to a lack luster experience.

That sounds a lot more like sanshou than sansoo, but the 2 get confused a lot so who knows.

the school that I trained at in Bellflower was under a guy named Bill Hullsey. He's an 8th degree black belt. He does very traditional San Soo. He may do things differently now, but then, class was informal. You just showed up and picked a partner and worked out. He would go around from person to person and show them techniques. You would practice them with your partners at literally, "tai chi" speed with no contact. After you did one techniques say 20 or more times, he would show you something else.

The classes didn't have any structure. The school opened at 5pm, a few hours after I got out of school, and ran until 9. You would come and go as you please. There was no formal beginning or end. It was more like a boxing gym in format than a martial arts class. People just did what they wanted.

The San Soo school here in Vegas was run by a guy named Chris McCune, who was an 8th degree black belt in San Soo but also had a purple belt in bjj from a machado school. They worked grappling into the San Soo. They also practiced MT style strikes from stand-up (elbows, knees, jabs, thrust kicks, ect.). They did conditioning and footwork drills and live sparring with full contact. McCune left and moved to Minnesota to start another school. I think he left the Vegas school to one of his black belts. I think his name is Eric Drobney, if I'm not mistaken. It's callled No Rules.

**Ashe** · Posted On: 7/08/2007 3:31am

Here's McCune's new school: http://www.norulesmartialarts.com/Main.htm

A friend of mine checked it out and considered joining. He said it seemed okay, and I have reason to respect his assessment. That said, I won't be checking it out myself. There are plenty of other good schools in this area that have already earned my respect.