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View Poll Results: Pi Quan ?

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    5 71.43%
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    2 28.57%
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    2 28.57%
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  1. BackFistMonkey is online now
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    Posted On:
    7/03/2007 10:02am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake
    I'm not an expert. He no longer posts here.

    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...68&postcount=1

    There enjoy.

    No, I don't fully agree.
    I read that . I am testing my knowledge as compared to the general populace based on information available .

    and for those of you too lazy to click and follow links

    Quote Originally Posted by Omar
    This may or not work but what the hell.

    I tried earlier just ot post a clip of how a piquan worked and was totally overwhelmed by the staggering inability to even comprehend what a piquan was. I thought the cop in the vid would clear a lot of things up and instead all I got was a lot of people going, "Oh, so like, uh, a piquan is a throat grab and take down...."



    I photoshoped pictures. I used video-caps. I made elaborate posts of 8 point breakdowns and I drew analogies from other fields but it looks like I somehow STILL managed to overestimate the ability of most bullies to think outside their little box and absorb a more principle based way of viewing motion. I'm a little buzzed from my first of many Chinese New Years dinners to come over the next week, 100 proof Chinese moonshine and stewed lambsfeet and so on but hey, I wasn't expecting to get this done in a single post or a single day anyways. I realize now that there isn't even enough basic jargon in the common understanding on this board to have posted that video in that context so I am going to go with a previous request which is to try and spell out some basic CMA principles and jargon and so on as per the subforum admin's request and a few others. I am going to start with Xingyiquan NOT because it is my central area of expertese because it's NOT but because it's the easiest to explain in print and with pictures. I might make an attempt at Taiji later but I'll have to think about it. Bagua seems like a completely unmanageable subject for Bullies and I can't talk about Baji in much depth because.....*drum roll*....it's a secret. Yes, most of what I could really theoretically offer on Baji I am actuall forbidden to share publically.

    So Xingyi.....starting with piquan.

    Xingyi, as I see it, has 2 main things you need to understand.

    1. Santishi.
    2. 5 element theory

    Santishi is the basic stance. It's the "neutral" position that everything else flows in and out of. It's the "put yer dukes up" of Xingyi. A pretty standard example is this:



    You can NOT learn piquan without first getting REALLY intimate with this stance just like you can't learn to box without first learning at least how to bring your hands up, set your feet in the right place and have a basic understanding of the whys and wherefores behind all that.

    5 Element theory.

    It's just a convenient way of organizing all the movement in the style into a kind of "scissors-papper-rock" system except that of course a large enough, badass enough scissors can STIL cut throught the rock. The basic idea is there though. Take the great mad mass of martial motion and make it maneageable by sorting it into 5 basic categories each of which is particularly well suited to counter one of the other catergories of motion. The "elements" are like memory tricks to make them easier to remember and also just a habit of Chinese folks to arrange stuff along the lines of already existing philisophical systems. In a nutshell:

    metal>wood>earth>water>fire>metal....etc.

    In motions that means (and this is SEVERELY simplifying):

    forward verticle circles with emphasis on chopping downward on the far side of the circle>blasting straight out in a line>horizontal shearing energy>"drilling" movementu>upwards and outwards movement>
    forward verticle circles with emphasis on chopping downward on the far side of the circle...etc.

    In terms of jargon we shorten all that verbiosity to:

    pi>beng>heng>zuan>bao>pi....etc.

    So piquan is NOT defined by any particular part of the anatomy or by the target area or by what shape fist or by ANY specific technique at all. It IS defined by it's verticle circlular path of attach with an emphasis on the downward part of the circle away from you.

    That being said, peopel can not train in pure abstraction so there IS a "piquan" as a specific movement pattern. The USE is left open ended. You can modify and apply as you see fit. The main thing is to recognize a certain quality and path of movement. Here are a few examples of different people demonstrating different variations on piquan:


    51 seconds:
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=Hf2r5c_iNnY

    at 2 seconds and again at 9 seconds:
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=tasjXH-yoNc

    Santishi at 13 seconds. Piquan at 1:03
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=pddfqUx0v80

    That's enough for a first post on the subject.

    edit:
    Another vid:
    Piquan at 1:47 and a quick little one leading into the kick at 2:04 followed by a piquan with a twist step immediately after. Again at 2:16 where you can only see his legs.

    Basically almost all the palm down strikes in this little form.
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=vlkIys9GHYQ
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhi108 View Post
    Nuke a unborn gay whale for Christ.
    I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
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  2. Snake Plissken is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/03/2007 11:16am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I voted for #1 because both people have their eyes closed.

    Actually, from trying to read Omar's clusterf*ck of an explanation, best I can figure it is a block into a punch....so this looks like it should be a block into a punch.

    Well, as close as is possible with the examples.
  3. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/03/2007 11:20am

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     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Pi Quan is a thrusting Palm strike that has a slight downward drop.
  4. BackFistMonkey is online now
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    Posted On:
    7/03/2007 11:28am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake
    Pi Quan is a thrusting Palm strike that has a slight downward drop.
    Then why the hell do some CMA people relate it to a jab then .

    ...and I thought hand configuration and targets were simply done on the fly .
    Last edited by BackFistMonkey; 7/03/2007 11:32am at .
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhi108 View Post
    Nuke a unborn gay whale for Christ.
    I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
    BILL HICKS,
    1961-1994
  5. BackFistMonkey is online now
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    Posted On:
    7/03/2007 11:30am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by aardvarks
    I voted for #1 because both people have their eyes closed.
    That is a Zen Meditative State on my part there buddy .
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhi108 View Post
    Nuke a unborn gay whale for Christ.
    I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
    BILL HICKS,
    1961-1994
  6. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/03/2007 11:32am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BackFistMonkey
    Then why the hell do CMA people relate it to a jab .
    You got me. I don't say that at all. If you notice on that thread and the Pi Quan cop thread I am conspicuously silent.
    and I thought hand configuration and targets were simply done on the fly .
    No, that is what the "experts" say.


    You don't argue with "experts."
  7. BackFistMonkey is online now
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    Posted On:
    7/03/2007 11:35am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake
    You got me. I don't say that at all. If you notice on that thread and the Pi Quan cop thread I conspicuously silent.

    No, that is what the "experts" say.
    Cool .

    Thank you for chiming in here are well .

    I am curious as to what kind of help will come about exploring this topic . I would think there would be ... like ... commonly agreed upon definitions within a community .

    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake
    You don't argue with "experts."
    You grow tits and punch them apparently .
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhi108 View Post
    Nuke a unborn gay whale for Christ.
    I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
    BILL HICKS,
    1961-1994
  8. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/03/2007 11:51am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BackFistMonkey
    Cool .

    Thank you for chiming in here are well .

    I am curious as to what kind of help will come about exploring this topic . I would think there would be ... like ... commonly agreed upon definitions within a community.

    No there will never be accepted definitions. You see how simple it is to somewhat explain Pi Quan?

    You do see the other explanation.

    There are 40,000,0000,0000,0000,0000000000000 different supposed applications.
    I call it the wordiness of CMA. The more complex it sounds the more knowledgeable you are.

    Someone will eventually tell you I'm wrong. That is the dumbness of CMA. I don't mind multiple applications for techniques but, when you start stretching a basic strike into throws, sweeps, chin-na etc. it is stupid. It leads right back to **** like grappling is hidden in the forms.

    If I gave you an American Football and told you it was used for Futbol, you'd say I was insane.
    For some reason this same logic doesn't apply to CMAs.

    Pretty much, if it looks like a palm strike it is a palm strike.
  9. Cullion is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/03/2007 11:55am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BackFistMonkey
    Cool .

    Thank you for chiming in here are well .

    I am curious as to what kind of help will come about exploring this topic . I would think there would be ... like ... commonly agreed upon definitions within a community .
    Well, it's not always like that in CMA. China's a big country. 'CMA' refers to lots of different styles with bigger stylistic differences between them, than say, boxing is from karate.

    I only know what a 'Pi Quan' is from reading stuff on the 'net. Never mentioned in either of the CMA's I've studied.
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  10. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/03/2007 12:05pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake
    Pi Quan is a thrusting Palm strike that has a slight downward drop.
    I mean to ask this a couple of times. What makes a strike a "thrusting strike"? Not necessarily related to pi quan, but I've seen that term (thrusting strike) several times but without any technical explanation.

    And regarding pi quan, how is the slight downward drop accomplished? By the direction the arm/hand takes, or by a drop in the whole body?
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