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  1. DAYoung is offline
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    Crouching Philosopher, Hidden Philosopher

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    Posted On:
    7/02/2007 4:22pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Tae Kwon Do: Fitness With Meaning

    I saw this a couple of days ago in the city. I couldn't help taking a photo for posterity.

    Leaving to one side the qualities of the school itself, what's the significance of this claim? Is it more meaningful than other sports or physical training?

    If so, is this well-advertised 'meaning' somehow intrinsic to the activity, or extrinsic? Put another way, is this 'meaning' part and parcel of hopping about and kicking a lot, or is it something that's wrapped around these things like a big shawl?

    If the latter, couldn't we do the same with rowing, running or boxing? If the former, how does this work? How does a sport have more intrinsic meaning than others? And if it's intrinsic to a tradition (rather than a physical activity), what makes his tradition any more 'meaningful' than football or hockey?

    Similar claims have no doubt been made for Karate, Kung-Fu, and the like, but I'd like to assess the particular claims of Tae Kwon Do.

    More information on the school's history and philosophy here.
    Last edited by DAYoung; 7/02/2007 4:26pm at .
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  2. DerAuslander is offline
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    Valiant Monk of Booze & War

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    Posted On:
    7/02/2007 11:17pm

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    You devil, you...

    Quote Originally Posted by DAYoung
    Leaving to one side the qualities of the school itself, what's the significance of this claim?
    This claim as led to generations of LARPers, and the degredation of the budo/mudo ethic.

    Quote Originally Posted by DAYoung
    Is it more meaningful than other sports or physical training?
    Yes and no.

    Combative disciplines are different than other sports. While football may be "like a war", in Taegwondo, I am literally trying to defeat my opponent by kicking him in the head, by points , by knockout. Death of my opponent, while accidental, would still be a direct result of my desire to inflict physical harm upon him.

    Quote Originally Posted by DAYoung
    If so, is this well-advertised 'meaning' somehow intrinsic to the activity, or extrinsic?
    Again, yes, and no.

    The technical syllabus does not literally contain its philosophy. One could become an Olympic champion without actually being a mudoin. Indeed, in my experience, a mudo ethos is very lacking in most dojang, and is at best, LARPed in the majority.

    However, I would find it hard to bring a truly mudo ethic to table tennis.

    Quote Originally Posted by DAYoung
    Put another way, is this 'meaning' part and parcel of hopping about and kicking a lot, or is it something that's wrapped around these things like a big shawl?
    The meaning is brought to the activity by the practitioner, even if it is generally ascribed to the practice.

    Quote Originally Posted by DAYoung
    If the latter, couldn't we do the same with rowing, running or boxing?
    Certainly with boxing, or any other martial art.

    Quote Originally Posted by DAYoung
    And if it's intrinsic to a tradition (rather than a physical activity), what makes his tradition any more 'meaningful' than football or hockey?
    I would think that could only be decided by the practitioner.

    Quote Originally Posted by DAYoung
    Similar claims have no doubt been made for Karate, Kung-Fu, and the like, but I'd like to assess the particular claims of Tae Kwon Do.

    More information on the school's history and philosophy here.
    The claims of Taegwondo are essentially the same as Karate, as Korean mudo owes its genesis to Japanese budo from the Occupation. However, it has been shaded in terms of Korean culture. Some of this is legitimate and influential. The majority of it is window dressing to distract from the Japanese influence, and ultimately, undermines mudo.

    And anything from the WTF is to be questioned critically.
  3. BackFistMonkey is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/03/2007 3:55am

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    how the hell am I suppose to contribute to this ?


    * sigh *

    Leaving to one side the qualities of the school itself, what's the significance of this claim?

    Christ how can you even set a side the context of the claim ?

    ...

    never mind I just opened the page I am leaving this conversation now .
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhi108 View Post
    Nuke a unborn gay whale for Christ.
    I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
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  4. DAYoung is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/03/2007 3:58am

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    I'm suggesting that we can discuss the significance of the claim without necessarily attacking the school (which I have no idea about).
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  5. BackFistMonkey is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/03/2007 4:01am

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    Quote Originally Posted by DAYoung
    I'm suggesting that we can discuss the significance of the claim without necessarily attacking the school (which I have no idea about).
    I do not want to have polite conversation while a bucket of **** sits in the corner .
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhi108 View Post
    Nuke a unborn gay whale for Christ.
    I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
    BILL HICKS,
    1961-1994
  6. DAYoung is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/03/2007 4:04am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Combative disciplines are different than other sports. While football may be "like a war", in Taegwondo, I am literally trying to defeat my opponent by kicking him in the head, by points , by knockout. Death of my opponent, while accidental, would still be a direct result of my desire to inflict physical harm upon him.
    Hmmm. So it has an intrinsic 'martial' meaning - is this (subject to the usual caveats about LARPers) what you're suggesting?

    I would think that could only be decided by the practitioner.
    Of course. But you are a practitioner. And surely some practitioners are more qualified than others to decide?
    The claims of Taegwondo are essentially the same as Karate, as Korean mudo owes its genesis to Japanese budo from the Occupation. However, it has been shaded in terms of Korean culture. Some of this is legitimate and influential. The majority of it is window dressing to distract from the Japanese influence, and ultimately, undermines mudo.
    Is there anything uniquely Korean about it? I'm assuming there's nothing particularly 'kicky' about Korea...

    And anything from the WTF is to be questioned critically.
    I know this is pathetic, but can you outline the crucial differences between the WTF and other organisations?
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  7. DAYoung is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/03/2007 4:05am

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    Quote Originally Posted by BackFistMonkey
    I do not want to have polite conversation while a bucket of **** sits in the corner .
    I have a young child. I have to.
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  8. Steve is offline
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    The gift that keeps on giving

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    Posted On:
    7/03/2007 4:05am

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    Join my school, get a car.
  9. DAYoung is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/03/2007 4:08am

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    It was a new car, at least.

    And clean.

    And it was a coincidence, because it was only a few metres away from where I saw the Canadian TKD team training for the championships last year (the competition was in Geelong).
    Martial Arts and Philosophy: Beating and Nothingness
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  10. BackFistMonkey is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/03/2007 4:10am

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    Quote Originally Posted by DAYoung

    Is there anything uniquely Korean about it? I'm assuming there's nothing particularly 'kicky' about Korea...
    ummm ... I am not touching this one either . I didn't help birth or create that beast .
    I know this is pathetic, but can you outline the crucial differences between the WTF and other organisations?
    Targets , round lengths , bounces-per-minute ....
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhi108 View Post
    Nuke a unborn gay whale for Christ.
    I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
    BILL HICKS,
    1961-1994
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