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  1. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/28/2007 2:46pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    What are Creatine and Nitric Oxide for?

    I made this thread to discuss this and to avoid derailing someone elses' thread. The whole purpose of this thread is to discuss what creatine and NO do or do not.

    The following was stated here when Anthony asked for advice on how to deal with shoulder pain during training:

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyph
    I used to not be a big supplement fan, but that changed after I went to school for medicine.

    There are several that will help you recover faster, and increase your endurance.

    The safest is a Nitric Oxide booster. It is a mild vasodilator. Which means in increases the size of your blood vessels. For a quick Anatomy and Physiology lesson: You heal and recover quicker in areas of your bodies that get more blood. More blood to an area = more nutrients to aid in the healing process. This also helps you recover quicker on the
    fly. This also reduces heart disease because it makes it harder for plaque to stick to arterial walls.

    For NO boost I am a fan of the Biogenetix brand, because it has better chemistry. Long story short, they bound it to a fatty acid so it has more cellular permeability. It also has a chemical bound to it that gives it a longer life span in the body.

    The other is good old creatine. This is those nutrients I spoke of before. This stuff helps rebuild every item in your body that moves. The down side is that it will put any one in a pissy mood. Made me an utter ass. This and protean are the primary substances in red meat, which predators feed on constantly. There is a reason they are so aggressive other than nature.

    Other than these there is just hard work and recovery time.

    Later,
    Zyph
    From there other members questioned these statements. Unless I'm reading Zyph's post wrong, I would dissagree as well.

    AFAIK creatine is a supplement for athletic performance enhancement (used for replenishing ATP stores). Nitric Oxide does a similar job to creatine in addition to vasodilation and muscular volumization. I never heard them to be used for recovery and/or tissue regeneration.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  2. WhiteShark is offline
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    1% Shark is better than you.

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    Posted On:
    6/28/2007 3:09pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I can find several medical sources in mere seconds that imply NOs benefits in getting more blood/oxygen to your muscles. It logically follows that increased circulation would improve recovery time. Whether that has been proven in the lab/gym I don't know.

    Here is one about inhaled NO and critically ill pulmonary patients. It increased their oxygenation. Will it increase yours? I have no idea.
    http://www.cja-jca.org/cgi/content/full/49/3/315


    And here is the Nobel concerning NO and its Cardiovascular regulatory effects:
    http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/m.../1998/illpres/

    Here is another showing increased oxygenation in critically ALI patients. Again not it is inhaled.
    http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...?artid=1852043
    Last edited by WhiteShark; 6/28/2007 3:15pm at .
  3. Zyph is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/28/2007 3:12pm


     Style: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by El Macho
    I made this thread to discuss this and to avoid derailing someone elses' thread. The whole purpose of this thread is to discuss what creatine and NO do or do not.

    The following was stated here when Anthony asked for advice on how to deal with shoulder pain during training:



    From there other members questioned these statements. Unless I'm reading Zyph's post wrong, I would dissagree as well.

    AFAIK creatine is a supplement for athletic performance enhancement (used for replenishing ATP stores). Nitric Oxide does a similar job to creatine in addition to vasodilation and muscular volumization. I never heard them to be used for recovery and/or tissue regeneration.
    Here is why I made my statement about NO. The increased blood flow allows for faster recovery and tissue regeneration. They are a side effect of its intended use. Sorta like an erection was a side effect of what Viagra was being designed for.

    I am not up on the Creatine. It is not one of my strong suits, and I do not use it. As it helps build muscle mass, one would believe that a damaged muscle, which needs to re-grow, would also benefit. I do apologize if my op was not clearer on this.

    These are all side effects of the anabolic pump that NO2 offers, and creatine also.

    You learn in anatomy and phys that the reason tendons and ligaments do not heal as fast as muscle and bone is because of the reduced blood flow they receive (in comparison to the later two.)

    This is what my views are based on, the workings of the human body, not the advertised benefits of these items. J

    I would love to discuss this further as my knowledge of supplements could use work also.
    Later,
    Zyph

    P.S. El I love the avatar ;)
    Last edited by Zyph; 6/28/2007 3:14pm at .
  4. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/28/2007 3:46pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks for the response, both of you guys. After re-reading Zyph's post (and more google-fu), it does make sense that NO can help in tissue regeneration (due to being a vasodilator.)

    Zyph, Esther Taylor is teh hot. You should see my collection of avatars :tongue3:
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  5. cyrijl is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/28/2007 3:49pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, MT, Yoga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Here is a related/unrelated post.

    Would you recommend creatine to a 15yr old? We got this kid at my school and his father encourages him to take it...and by encourage i basically mean force.
  6. Zyph is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/28/2007 3:53pm


     Style: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by cyrijl
    Here is a related/unrelated post.

    Would you recommend creatine to a 15yr old? We got this kid at my school and his father encourages him to take it...and by encourage i basically mean force.

    NO. I would never recommend any supplement to some one still growing. IMO there is too much still changing in the body for that to be beneficial, and the studies on how these drugs work were all done for adults. There is no telling what will do to some one who’s physiology is still changing.
    Later,
    Zyph
  7. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/28/2007 4:08pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by cyrijl
    Here is a related/unrelated post.

    Would you recommend creatine to a 15yr old? We got this kid at my school and his father encourages him to take it...and by encourage i basically mean force.
    His father is a retarded douchebag. The only things he should be forcing are greens, oatmeal, chicken, milk and a multivitamin, forcing out any form of junk food.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  8. Zyph is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/28/2007 5:48pm


     Style: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Wanted to say one more thing on this. I have noticed better CV recovery between rounds since I started taking NO. This is important to note, because I only have one (1) lung. If I do too much CV work I tend to get dizzy this makes sprinting a bitch I promise. Taking NO has not ended this problem, but it has helped it a whole hell of a lot.

    What I may can do is next time I teach a class I will get my vitals (BP, Pulse, Respirations, and O2 sat) with out NO on board, and then do a follow up with the NO on board and see if there is a difference. This will not be a true study as that would take a year or more, and require far more math than I am willing to do. It could give us some ideas of how different it is with and without this supplement.

    What do you guys think?
    Later,
    Zyph
  9. death pig is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/28/2007 11:46pm


     Style: Boxing & Submissions

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have never heard of creatine doing anything for recovery. The aggression bit sounds like placebo, too. I used it for quite some time and found I got a better pump due to more water in the muscles, and increased work capacity. It was useful but it's not even remotely roid-like.

    Creatine probably wouldn't hurt a 15-year-old but I doubt it will do anything much for him, either.
  10. Govithoy is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/29/2007 12:28am


     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I wouldn't really advise any supplements for a 15 year old, seems like their bodies are going through enough bullshit that you don't need to throw a wrench in the spokes of an already wobbling bicycle.

    If creatine and NO2 don't really help recovery, what does the job specifically?
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