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  1. It is Fake is offline
    It is Fake's Avatar

    Administrator

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    Jan 2005
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    34,062

    Posted On:
    6/30/2007 4:00pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by LowwerWay
    Ok.

    In the big picture, you won't find me to be friend or foe to any kind of doctor. There's good ones, and there's bad ones, and figuring out which is which is the no easy task.
    Friend or foe as in TBK=foe LW= firend.

    To the forum sir, not to a doctor of either discipline.
  2. Phrost is offline
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    Jun 1998
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    Cow Town
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    Posted On:
    6/30/2007 6:09pm

    Business Class Supporting Memberstaff
     Guy Who Pays the Bills and Gets the Death Threats Style: MMA (Retired)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Anecdote:

    Eons ago when I did Wushu and was a lot more gullible, I had "Chi Gong" used on my knees because the old Army injury was exacerbated by all the jumping and crap. The guy, who spoke no English, rubbed a special blend of 11 secret herbs and spices into a poultice to put on my knees, made some humming noises while shooting a double kamehameha into my patellas, and told me to stay out of class for two weeks.

    Miraculously, it worked.

    The staying out of class for 2 weeks, that is.
  3. Quikfeet509 is offline

    Acupuncturist / Anesthesia Student

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    Oct 2004
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    Kansas City - the mecca of civilization
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    1,622

    Posted On:
    6/30/2007 6:22pm


     Style: Mostly weights now...

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by isol8d
    I find it dubious that the article on Quackwatch quotes other websites that are run and owned by the same guy who runs Quackwatch. No doubt that he'll get supporting theories.

    However, it also links to the National Institutes of Heatlh:

    Acupuncture as a therapeutic intervention is widely practiced in the United States. While there have been many studies of its potential usefulness, many of these studies provide equivocal results because of design, sample size, and other factors. The issue is further complicated by inherent difficulties in the use of appropriate controls, such as placebos and sham acupuncture groups. However, promising results have emerged, for example, showing efficacy of acupuncture in adult postoperative and chemotherapy nausea and vomiting and in postoperative dental pain. There are other situations such as addiction, stroke rehabilitation, headache, menstrual cramps, tennis elbow, fibromyalgia, myofascial pain, osteoarthritis, low back pain, carpal tunnel syndrome, and asthma, in which acupuncture may be useful as an adjunct treatment or an acceptable alternative or be included in a comprehensive management program. Further research is likely to uncover additional areas where acupuncture interventions will be useful.


    So there is validity in what TBK posted, however, I do remember people getting bans for posting links with no descriptions or summations.....

    The NIH link is a good start, but you have to view it in context of when it was issued - 1997. The amount of evidence on acupuncture available in the West has exploded in the past ten years so articles like that one [and the position paper from 1981 that TBK posted once] are not as relevant as they used to be.

    Actually, after another look at the website, I noticed this:

    This statement is more than five years old and is provided solely for historical purposes. Due to the cumulative nature of medical research, new knowledge has inevitably accumulated in this subject area in the time since the statement was initially prepared. Thus some of the material is likely to be out of date, and at worst simply wrong. For reliable, current information on this and other health topics, we recommend consulting the National Institutes of Health's MedlinePlus http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/.


    And Phrost...
    Quote Originally Posted by Phrost
    Eons ago when I did Wushu and was a lot more gullible, I had "Chi Gong" used on my knees because the old Army injury was exacerbated by all the jumping and crap. The guy, who spoke no English, rubbed a special blend of 11 secret herbs and spices into a poultice to put on my knees, made some humming noises while shooting a double kamehameha into my patellas, and told me to stay out of class for two weeks.

    Miraculously, it worked.

    The staying out of class for 2 weeks, that is.
    You do realize that your personal anecdote is just as equally worthless as those that say that one acupuncture treatment cured them of premature ejaculation, and you are just as unable as everyone else to determine whether or not in this one case if it was the rest or if it was herbal-hippie-qigong that resulted in the alleviation of your knee pain.
  4. drjoker is offline

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    6

    Posted On:
    7/29/2007 10:22pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You might be surprised to find that accupuncture is not fake, but since it is not regulated like allopathic medicine with an AMA, there are a lot of fake accupuncturists. Just like when you ask for the credentials and lineage of a kung fu sifu, you should also do the same homework when looking for an accupuncturist. Many kung fu sifus are also accupuncturists and well-schooled in traditional chinese medicine so that they may mend their battle broken students in the old days before the advent of western medicine. This healing knowledge was passed down with the fighting knowledge.

    I am a practitioner of western allopathic medicine, so I am skeptical of accupuncture. However, it doesn't matter if it is "fake" or not because it works. For example, 30% of patients that were given sugar water but told it was morphine experienced pain relief equal to that of morphine! I would prefer accupuncture to the addictive medicines like vicodin and oxycontin for pain. For genuine physical harm needing surgical intervention, I suggest that you just see a doctor, not an accupuncturist.

    My father was an accupuncturist. One time, the neighbor had a horrible headache and called my father to help him. My father did a full physical exam and work-up. He noticed that the neighbor had blue feet and was throwing up as well as having the headache. The guy felt cold to the touch. He recognized that the neighbor was undergoing shock, so he dragged the neighbor to the E.R. forcibly. The neighbor refused to go to the E.R. because he "felt fine, it's just a headache". At the E.R. my father said that the neighbor was undergoing shock and possibly had internal bleeding, maybe a head injury. The doctor later diagnosed the neighbor as having had a brain aneurism. The doctor said that if the neighbor had stayed home another 30 minutes, he would probably be dead.

    Some of the older chinese sifus have a deep knowledge of the human body and accupuncture really does work because the participants believe it works. My dad saved a man's life in front of my eyes. So, even though I'm still kinda skeptical, I have been convinced that it works and you might be surprised to find that if it works and saves lives, that's all that matters....
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