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  1. Thaiboxerken is offline
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    Genius

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    Posted On:
    6/30/2007 11:12am

    supporting member
     Style: Kru-MuayThai,GJJ-Blue

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What's not legitimate about posting a link where you can read all about acupuncture yourself.
    "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire.
  2. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/30/2007 11:14am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It is the second time you've decided to **** up this thread with the same link. I'm not going to spend time moving your dumbass posts when I can just get you removed from here permanetly.

    It'll save me and the others time and effort. Take the same title and complain in YMAS.
  3. LowwerWay is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/30/2007 11:52am


     Style: ex-KF, now Judoka + BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by oldman34
    I would like to ask.

    Does it work? Does anyone here actually have experience one way or the other?
    I train with a woman who goes to acupuncture and swears by it. She suffers from a great deal of incurable ailments that are genetic. Could this be a placebo effect?

    Of course, as I have said in the past, If I wanted needles stuck in me to feel good, I would do Heroin.
    TCM? Does it work. Yes. Does everyone who claims to practice it, practice it effectively? No. No more than any Western doctor. There's quacks in every facet of healthcare, and I work very closely with doctors on a daily basis. Speaking from personal experience, I've seen some TCM first aid that was very effective for dislocations, sprains, etc... I've also used a little bit of accupressure to relieve headaches, and so forth.
  4. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/30/2007 12:00pm

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     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by LowwerWay
    TCM? Does it work. Yes. Does everyone who claims to practice it, practice it effectively? No. No more than any Western doctor. There's quacks in every facet of healthcare, and I work very closely with doctors on a daily basis. Speaking from personal experience, I've seen some TCM first aid that was very effective for dislocations, sprains, etc... I've also used a little bit of accupressure to relieve headaches, and so forth.
    Qualifications please before I move your post. This is similar to TBK's post but the other side of the spectrum.
  5. LowwerWay is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/30/2007 1:38pm


     Style: ex-KF, now Judoka + BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake
    Qualifications please before I move your post. This is similar to TBK's post but the other side of the spectrum.
    Qualifications such as?

    My experience with Western Medicine:
    9 years working in healthcare, including 5 as a cardiovascular technician, and now currently working in healthcare industry as a trainer for physicians, nurses, and allied health professionals. I'm not posting any certifications here, sorry, that's too personal in nature for any internet forum.

    My experience with TCM: being on the recieving end of it when injured in sparring and training, and witnessing that same thing at times when others were injured. Also, following the advice of some practitioners of TCM for other health issues. My current teacher is not a practitioner of TCM to the extent of being considered a doctor by that community, but he has trained under one for several years.

    If those aren't qualifying enough, then move my post wherever you feel its needed to go.
  6. Cullion is offline
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    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    6/30/2007 2:29pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have no experience of the acupuncture on either side of the needle, but I've seen anecdotal evidence of TCM tui na deep massage helping my friends with various sports injuries. No chi claims involved.
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  7. isol8d is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/30/2007 3:05pm


     Style: kung fu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I find it dubious that the article on Quackwatch quotes other websites that are run and owned by the same guy who runs Quackwatch. No doubt that he'll get supporting theories.

    However, it also links to the National Institutes of Heatlh:

    Acupuncture as a therapeutic intervention is widely practiced in the United States. While there have been many studies of its potential usefulness, many of these studies provide equivocal results because of design, sample size, and other factors. The issue is further complicated by inherent difficulties in the use of appropriate controls, such as placebos and sham acupuncture groups. However, promising results have emerged, for example, showing efficacy of acupuncture in adult postoperative and chemotherapy nausea and vomiting and in postoperative dental pain. There are other situations such as addiction, stroke rehabilitation, headache, menstrual cramps, tennis elbow, fibromyalgia, myofascial pain, osteoarthritis, low back pain, carpal tunnel syndrome, and asthma, in which acupuncture may be useful as an adjunct treatment or an acceptable alternative or be included in a comprehensive management program. Further research is likely to uncover additional areas where acupuncture interventions will be useful.


    So there is validity in what TBK posted, however, I do remember people getting bans for posting links with no descriptions or summations.....
  8. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/30/2007 3:30pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by LowwerWay
    Qualifications such as?

    My experience with Western Medicine:
    9 years working in healthcare, including 5 as a cardiovascular technician, and now currently working in healthcare industry as a trainer for physicians, nurses, and allied health professionals. I'm not posting any certifications here, sorry, that's too personal in nature for any internet forum.

    My experience with TCM: being on the recieving end of it when injured in sparring and training, and witnessing that same thing at times when others were injured. Also, following the advice of some practitioners of TCM for other health issues. My current teacher is not a practitioner of TCM to the extent of being considered a doctor by that community, but he has trained under one for several years.

    If those aren't qualifying enough, then move my post wherever you feel its needed to go.
    I didn't ask you to post anything personal. QF just like you provided his background to me as a forum mod. He has a background in TCM. He is currently going through another program involving Western Medicine. That is why I asked him to comment.

    We have 2 other threads for your comment

    Here: http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=56563

    Also, Here:
    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=56636



    4) If any of you have credentials in TCM or Western medicine let us know. I want this to be as technical as possible. Even if you disagree with QF.
    Your TCM is similar to mine. So, to say yes it works definitively with no TCM background leads to the heated discussions I'm trying to avoid in this specific thread. As stated in the rules in my OP it will be heavily edited.
    Last edited by It is Fake; 6/30/2007 3:32pm at .
  9. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/30/2007 3:39pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by isol8d
    I find it dubious that the article on Quackwatch quotes other websites that are run and owned by the same guy who runs Quackwatch. No doubt that he'll get supporting theories.

    However, it also links to the National Institutes of Heatlh:

    Acupuncture as a therapeutic intervention is widely practiced in the United States. While there have been many studies of its potential usefulness, many of these studies provide equivocal results because of design, sample size, and other factors. The issue is further complicated by inherent difficulties in the use of appropriate controls, such as placebos and sham acupuncture groups. However, promising results have emerged, for example, showing efficacy of acupuncture in adult postoperative and chemotherapy nausea and vomiting and in postoperative dental pain. There are other situations such as addiction, stroke rehabilitation, headache, menstrual cramps, tennis elbow, fibromyalgia, myofascial pain, osteoarthritis, low back pain, carpal tunnel syndrome, and asthma, in which acupuncture may be useful as an adjunct treatment or an acceptable alternative or be included in a comprehensive management program. Further research is likely to uncover additional areas where acupuncture interventions will be useful.


    So there is validity in what TBK posted, however, I do remember people getting bans for posting links with no descriptions or summations.....
    I agree. Yet, I asked for the other thread to stay clear. He wants to repeatedly post quckwatch here, that's fine.

    The other thread I'm going to be an ass. QF is busy and has an extensive background in TCM and Acupuncture. He is also studying western medicine. As you can see above I'm culling "friend or foe" posts on both sides.
  10. LowwerWay is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/30/2007 3:58pm


     Style: ex-KF, now Judoka + BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake
    I didn't ask you to post anything personal. QF just like you provided his background to me as a forum mod. He has a background in TCM. He is currently going through another program involving Western Medicine. That is why I asked him to comment.
    Ok.

    In the big picture, you won't find me to be friend or foe to any kind of doctor. There's good ones, and there's bad ones, and figuring out which is which is the no easy task.
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