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  1. karate26 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/26/2007 7:19pm


     Style: Chito-Ryu Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    OAMA/Renzo club uses ninjitsu for marketing?

    This thread is directed to the OAMA students/instructors in Ottawa and the greater Bullshido community.

    From my understanding, OAMA has a good reputation as a Renzo Gracie school and muay thai club. Based on the school's affiliations, I was surprised to see a few items:

    1. In the news section (Brazilian jiu-jitsu section), a guest instructor named Kyoshi Allie Alberigo is credited with making "... a big impact on our school." From what I understand, Mr. Albergio runs Ninjitsu McDojos in the US. Why would OAMA want to be associated with Mr. Albergio? http://www.oama.ca/news.php?site=bjj Mr. Cooligan is now working extensively with Hollywood BJJ - is this a sign that Renzo schools are now using ninjer/mcdojo marketing tactics?

    2. OAMA's senior instructors seem to do extensive travel - but at what expense to the students? My impression is that the news board is used to generate "hype": when the senior instructors are actually at the club teaching... why is this? I can be appreciate the value of having experienced instructors, but are the students funding all this travel through participation in contests (e.g. the "patched out" Gi contest) ?

    Other items:

    3. I have heard that students must wear a muay thai "uniform" - an official OAMA t-shirt and shorts to participate. Is this normal in other muay thai gyms?

    4. In Mr. Cooligan's interview with "on the mat" http://www.onthemat.com , he states that he does not see value in having his fighters appear on local (Ottawa) MMA cards. This to me sounds like avoiding competition rather than embracing it, but I would be interested to hear what more experienced MMA people have to say.

    If OAMA instructors/students are on this site, I would like to hear the rationale for your current marketing decisions and/or participation in the events described above. Do you think that some decisions, while they may generate revenue, might be bad for the overall image of your gym? For BJJ? For MMA in general?
  2. WhiteShark is offline
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    1% Shark is better than you.

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    Posted On:
    6/26/2007 7:23pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You need to change your comment about this applying to all Renzo Gracie schools pretty quick. There are a lot of Renzo Gracie affiliates that don't have anything to do with OAMA. (like mine)

    is this a sign that Renzo schools are now using ninjer/mcdojo marketing tactics?
  3. Fitz is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/26/2007 7:53pm


     Style: Judo, Tomiki Aikido, ??

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'll contribute what I can to this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by karate26
    1. In the news section (Brazilian jiu-jitsu section), a guest instructor named Kyoshi Allie Alberigo is credited with making "... a big impact on our school." From what I understand, Mr. Albergio runs Ninjitsu McDojos in the US. Why would OAMA want to be associated with Mr. Albergio? http://www.oama.ca/news.php?site=bjj Mr. Cooligan is now working extensively with Hollywood BJJ - is this a sign that Renzo schools are now using ninjer/mcdojo marketing tactics?
    Alberigo was associated for a long time with Shoto Tanemura's Genbukan but ceased that association a few years ago due to undisclosed circumstances. He has erroniously continued to claim association with the Genbukan on his "Long Island Ninjutsu" websites however.

    For several years Alberigo has produced marketing materials for martial arts school, both in terms of in class practices and bsiness strategies. The majority of this material does fall into the "McDojo" category though it should be said that Alberigo never engaged in watering down the core Genbukan practices among his adult students. He has however conducted questionable classes, such as classes for 3 to 5 year olds.

    For information on his Martial Arts School marketing material see

    http://www.takingittothenextlevel.com

    For information on his current teaching locations see

    http://www.lininja.com/

    Notice that he still claims to be teaching Genbukan material despite the fact that he is no longer involved with that organization.
  4. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/26/2007 8:11pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by karate26
    This thread is directed to the OAMA students/instructors in Ottawa and the greater Bullshido community.

    From my understanding, OAMA has a good reputation as a Renzo Gracie school and muay thai club. Based on the school's affiliations, I was surprised to see a few items:

    1. In the news section (Brazilian jiu-jitsu section), a guest instructor named Kyoshi Allie Alberigo is credited with making "... a big impact on our school." From what I understand, Mr. Albergio runs Ninjitsu McDojos in the US. Why would OAMA want to be associated with Mr. Albergio? http://www.oama.ca/news.php?site=bjj Mr. Cooligan is now working extensively with Hollywood BJJ - is this a sign that Renzo schools are now using ninjer/mcdojo marketing tactics?
    Lets analyze the post you are referring to.
    Thank you Kyoshi Allie Alberigo for coming to Ottawa this weekend despite your busy schedule, your help is much appreciated. Allie is a good friend of Pat and has helped our school in many ways. He has made a big impact on our school.
    So maybe bringing him out turned out to be a great money maker. Maybe they really are good friends and help each other out. Did you ask?

    Apparently he does seminars to help businesses make money. Did you call and ask what type of seminar he offered?

    2. OAMA's senior instructors seem to do extensive travel - but at what expense to the students? My impression is that the news board is used to generate "hype": when the senior instructors are actually at the club teaching... why is this? I can be appreciate the value of having experienced instructors, but are the students funding all this travel through participation in contests (e.g. the "patched out" Gi contest)
    Okay are they supposed to be sad? They aren't supposed to hype their fight team? I'm sorry it reads a little over the top but bullshido/Mcdojo? Not IMO.

    Again did you call and ask if your participation is required in said raffles and contests?

    3. I have heard that students must wear a muay thai "uniform" - an official OAMA t-shirt and shorts to participate. Is this normal in other muay thai gyms?
    Does it really matter. Many gyms do things to be unique. Again did you call or ask these questions?
    4. In Mr. Cooligan's interview with "on the mat" http://www.onthemat.com , he states that he does not see value in having his fighters appear on local (Ottawa) MMA cards. This to me sounds like avoiding competition rather than embracing it, but I would be interested to hear what more experienced MMA people have to say.
    He has a fight team enough said.
    http://www.onthemat.com/articles/Hol...6_19_2007.html
    Well In my opinion if you want to be the best you have to go and test your self for example in BJJ we have done the last four Pan-Ams in Cali and the last three worlds in Brazil. These are the toughest tournaments in the world for BJJ and if you are serious about making BJJ your life you have to measure yourself against the best to fight in a small tournament with a 100 competitors might be fun and good practice but it fails in comparison to the Pans or Worlds it is like comparing a local MMA show to UFC different league altogether. For my MMA guys we got a great offer to fight in Guam earlier this year it was on the other side of the planet in a tropical paradise all expenses paid and the purse was good as well. Now in terms of Thai boxing my top guys all have fought pro in Thailand and won and one of my guys is still undefeated 4-0 and has a big pro fight in NYC in a month. When you fight pro all expenses should be paid or we don’t do it. Unlike a lot of schools I won’t put guys to fight just to say I have guys fighting the offer needs to be good. And if you want to be the best or call yourself the best you need to get out on the road and fight abroad you can’t stay in your little region or comfort zone you have to go see what is out there it doesn’t matter if you live in LA or Ottawa the world is a big place with a lot of tough fighters

    If OAMA instructors/students are on this site, I would like to hear the rationale for your current marketing decisions and/or participation in the events described above. Do you think that some decisions, while they may generate revenue, might be bad for the overall image of your gym? For BJJ? For MMA in general?
    So, do you train at a competing gym? Seriously. He hypes his school, he rolls, he has a fight team, they compete, they have 400 students, they have a 6500(?) sqf facility with AC.

    What are you calling into question?

    The reason I ask is you really misrepresented everything from your links.
    Last edited by It is Fake; 6/26/2007 8:23pm at .
  5. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/26/2007 8:22pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Oh sorry I forgot a very important link.

    http://www.takingittothenextlevel.com/

    Hey, Mcdojos know how to make money. As long as the training doesn't suffer whats wrong with a little extra marketing?
  6. Askari is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/26/2007 10:55pm


     Style: BJJ, Ju-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Pat was one of the first people to take the trip down and take the old 40 hour introduction that Renzo provided. This was in the mid-90s when no-one was training BJJ. Pat was a Black Belt in Can-Ryu Jiu-Jitsu and parked his ego and went to train. Cant say that for everyone.

    Some people dont like the marketing strategies of OAMA, and some people dont like that they dont push everyone to compete. But not everyone is in MA/BJJ to compete. Many just want a good workout- some good skills and the occasional competition.

    Clean Mats and AC are paid for by having lots of students.

    To the OP: Have you ever trained at OAMA?
    "Sifu, I"m niether - I'm a fire dragon so don't **** with me!"
  7. nickel is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/27/2007 3:45pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I am an Instructor at OAMA and have known Mr. Cooligan for several years. Let me try to clarify things for you a little. And since it is obvious you are nothing more than a hater this will be my only post.

    OAMA is affiliated with Renzo Gracie and the main Instructors Pat, Matt where both promoted to there present rank by Renzo himself. If you want to question Renzo’s judgment of BJJ go ahead I believe you would be in the minority to do that.

    In terms of Mr Alberigo he taught a children’s seminar and has never once taught adults and or trained with any adults from OAMA. Mr. Alberigo was helping OAMA instructors better understand children and consult on some business matters in relation to that program. Unlike many BJJ, MMA schools we are trying to teach children as well as adults. We do not have many children and this is where we need the work. Mr Alberigo is great with kids and business. This is a completely separate issue from the BJJ, Muay Thai, MMA, as you obviously read our news site a great deal you will already know that the vast majority of news is posted on the BJJ section.

    In terms of the news board being used to hype events well guess what it is!!!! Although it is always accurate if it says an Instructor is out of town they are!!! It would be odd to lie about it on the news when the students that read it would know it is not true lol that was a lame one buddy!!!

    Yes there is a Muay Thai uniform!! And guess what we have a no Gi one for the BJJ as well. But I can see how uniformity and having people wear uniforms like every other martial art is a horrible thing.

    If you read the article Mr Cooligan NEVER states competing in local shows is of no value OAMA has done it in the past and I know for a fact they will do it again in the future.

    To sum it all up I can say this. OAMA teaches high quality Renzo Gracie BJJ, they have some of the best seminars in the country and have the most active competition team in the province they have competed in four major tournaments this year winning over 50 medals at every experience up to purple belt. As as well as beginner through advanvced. Already in 2007 and one Gold at the pan-ams!!! Since you read our news I assume you know this. As of late 2006 we have the most active Muay Thai fight team in Ottawa!! Fighting at least once a month both pro and amateur. Our Muay Thai is taught by two active fighters that teach full time. At this time we do not fight a lot of MMA but we have several guys training that will debut in the next year.

    I hope this clears up some stuff but I doubt it as you obviously are a hater. In terms of a bad name for BJJ MMA we reach over 400 students with quality martial arts instruction. So it sounds to me like we are helping BJJ Muay Thai and MMA more than most schools.

    Reasons why people like you hate OAMA

    We are a big successful school
    We have great seminars that are for our students only
    We go to the tournaments we want to go to

    We make money and everyone seems to hate that??? Not sure why any other business in the world makes money and that is cool a Martial Arts school makes money and they are a fraud. This is also one of the reasons all the instructors are full time and do not have to work outside the school. They only have to train and teach would you be happier if they had to work full time and then teach like most hard working martial artists would they then be better at martial arts and teaching because they work all day??? I think not… But for you and a lot of people this is one more reason to hate us I suppose??

    Since Renzo is the overall role model to all the staff at OAMA and he has 800 students in NYC and makes the corresponding money and has a full time team if instructors he must be a fraud as well right?? If so OAMA is following in his footsteps… lol

    Bottom line everyone in Ottawa knows we are a top notch school we have several schools that compete with us in grappling and MMA and Thai, But I am sure even though they might not like aspects of our business I am sure they would say we have a good school… To question our school and someone like Renzo will not gather you a lot of support. But feel free to keep reading our news and speculating about our school… When you teach quality and care about the students a thousand of these internet threads mean nothing as you will see by the continued growth of our organization:happy7:
  8. UVray is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/27/2007 9:51pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    lol @ everything in the original post

    well, Nickel pretty much said what I was going to and probably a lot politer but I'll keep my responses short

    1. Why would OAMA want to be associated with Mr. Albergio? Plain and simple, he has tons of experiencing running a school. He wasn't brought up to teach adults ninjitsu but provided a lot of help on how to achieve our goals and have strong business continuity A.K.A staying in business so us students have a school to go to. There's no smoke and mirrors with what he conveyed, mostly how to help students achieve their own personal goals and stick with club in a win-win situation.

    2. OAMA's senior instructors seem to do extensive travel - but at what expense to the students? The expense placed on us is that we have senior instructors who come back with more experience and skills to pass on to us. The HORRORS!!!!!111 I personally would love to tell my wife and child that I'm going to be a full-time BJJ player and travel the globe, but it's much easier for the guys to bring back the skills to me. And if you are trying to imply that they are not actually on these trips, you may want to visit the gallery on the site and you can see some of the pics of their travels. As far as the funding, the contests are voluntary and the money goes to the competition team to cover only some of travel. As far as the "patched-out gi", he won a trip to NY to train at Renzo's free of charge. God damn OAMA is ruthless!!!

    3. I have heard that students must wear a muay thai "uniform" - an official OAMA t-shirt and shorts to participate. Is this normal in other muay thai gyms?
    You know, I have no idea if other gyms run this way. However, I personally think it conveys the team atmosphere that we have at OAMA. It's the same for our No-Gi class and every BJJ Gi must have a Renzo patch. Don't like it? You don't have to train here. Pretty simple.

    4. In Mr. Cooligan's interview with "on the mat" he states that he does not see value in having his fighters appear on local (Ottawa) MMA cards. Wow, you really twisted that up didn't you? Here is what is actually in the interview: "And if you want to be the best or call yourself the best you need to get out on the road and fight abroad you can’t stay in your little region or comfort zone you have to go see what is out there it doesn’t matter if you live in LA or Ottawa the world is a big place with a lot of tough fighters"
    That really sounds like ducking competition now doesn't it? He also explained in that very paragraph that you don't have to take every fight offered, it has to be worthwhile. I don't see how that is construed as unreasonable management.

    SO in closing, congrats on your troll thread, it got people to bite and explain something that you aren't even going to accept. But as Pat has done in the past, he just ignores the internet BS and focuses on making OAMA the best club in the country. Sorry that rubs you the wrong way.

    Raymond Rice (part-time instructor when the guys are fighting and competing world-wide)

    "Organized like a team, Fighting like a Family"
  9. Fitz is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/29/2007 3:24pm


     Style: Judo, Tomiki Aikido, ??

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by UVray
    1. Why would OAMA want to be associated with Mr. Albergio? Plain and simple, he has tons of experiencing running a school. He wasn't brought up to teach adults ninjitsu but provided a lot of help on how to achieve our goals and have strong business continuity A.K.A staying in business so us students have a school to go to. There's no smoke and mirrors with what he conveyed, mostly how to help students achieve their own personal goals and stick with club in a win-win situation.
    UVray,

    Out of curiousity, did Mr. Albergio claim at any time while at OAMA that he was representative of or affiliated with the Genbukan?
  10. nickel is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/29/2007 4:57pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Fitz

    Allie said he unfortunataly has left his japanese teacher and he is now doing his own thing we really know nothing about what he teaches so we do not even know what that means. hope that helps
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