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  1. Fantasy Warrior is offline
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    Misguided style basher

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    Posted On:
    6/24/2007 12:18pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kata

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    The problem with improving Taekwondo

    As an ex-Taekwondist, I've always wondered at what point "improved" taekwondo stops being taekwondo. I've trained with ITF, WTF and a whole bunch of "independants". By and large the ITF and WTF, and most of the independant offshoots, share generic similarities that are part of the cultural norms of Taekwondo as passed down by the large organisations - i.e. you can tell it's Taekwondo just by walking through the door; it looks ad feels like taekwondo.

    And it mostly sucks.

    So many of the independant offshoots incorporate 'enhancements' as seen fit by the instructor or small org's head honcho. Typically from what I'v seen it tends to either become generic sport point-sparring training, or slight below average 'kickboxing'.


    So if we follow a natural evolution of improving Taekwondo, in ways that ould be seen as better to most bullies, it'd end up being pretty much Muay Thai or modern SanShou(?).

    Less ritual, less hung up about Korea etc
    Fewer or no forms, far less dead training
    Heavier/fewer rules sparring

    I think the last one would be a key driver in changing the art - as soon as you say "it's ok to catch those kicks" and "heavy punches to the face are ok" it inhibits people from bouncing around doing the whole TKD dancing thing whilst sparring. Go further and say "cjlinching is ok" and before you know it either some MT guy will join and start manhandling everyone (whih in healthy club would mean people start training what he's using to dominate), or at the min people start reading up on clinching and bastard MT ensues.

    So at what point wold it stop being Taekwondo?

    Is this identity thing one of the things holding Taekwondo back?
    You are a total Douchbag. Train more, post nevermore.
    FickleFingerOfFate -08-21-2007 08:59 AM

    just die already.
    Plasma - 08-20-2007 11:45 PM


    Aikidokkkkakkakakakaaaaa
    Best MA website ever!!!!!: http://www.dogjudo.co.uk/
  2. Plasma is offline
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    Bullshido's Greatest Ninja

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    Posted On:
    6/24/2007 12:20pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: JJJ/Judo[Nidan] BJJ[Blue]

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Kickcatcher when are you going to start training in Martial Arts again?
  3. kwoww is offline
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    poser

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    Posted On:
    6/24/2007 12:48pm


     Style: punching bag / crew jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It won't be bastard MT because the techniques are entirely different. I don't think we'd clinch all that much either if it were allowed, because clinching doesn't really exist at all in TKD. Full contact doesn't make it a different style. If anything, it would be more like bastard Kyokushin.

    I think another one of TKD's problems is that its practitioners often enjoy sucking. They like kissing Korea's ass, they like being lied to about their history, and they like playing foot tag. Making TKD full contact won't change things that much, because the Koreaphilia will still be there.
  4. ONE TWO THREE FOUR FIVE is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/24/2007 1:02pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My feelings are that the first step for the WTF would be to remove the Hogu. With that out of the way you would still see something fairly similar to KK but probably still with a distinctive flair.

    From what I understand of the original TKD from what Errant108 and others have said is that it did used to look a lot like kickboxing, I don't see how thats a bad thing, people just have to be prepared to accept it.
  5. kwoww is offline
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    poser

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    Posted On:
    6/24/2007 1:50pm


     Style: punching bag / crew jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As I said, looks mean nothing, because the technical details are very different.
  6. Fantasy Warrior is offline
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    Misguided style basher

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    Posted On:
    6/24/2007 8:55pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kata

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by kwoww
    As I said, looks mean nothing, because the technical details are very different.
    So what if the techniques themselves changed to more generic kickboxing ones - I know several independant "TaeKwonDo" styles that teach punching from a 'boxers' guard and very little if any hip chambered strikes or blocks. Are they still Taekwondo?
    You are a total Douchbag. Train more, post nevermore.
    FickleFingerOfFate -08-21-2007 08:59 AM

    just die already.
    Plasma - 08-20-2007 11:45 PM


    Aikidokkkkakkakakakaaaaa
    Best MA website ever!!!!!: http://www.dogjudo.co.uk/
  7. hoodedmonk is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    6/24/2007 10:26pm


     Style: Bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I would like to see punches to the face allowed in both kyokushin and TKD comp. I think this would be a huge step in the right direction. after all in the real world who in the hell dosent throw punches to the face? karate guys know this so why not train for it? and if that makes it look too much like other martial arts who cares.
  8. kid_1412 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/25/2007 9:00am


     Style: Tae Kwon Do(GTF now)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    if you're saying that tkd need to be improved.i am half agreed with that.the only improvement tkd need is in grappling aspect.but i agree that tkd people are too dependant to the korean.by the way, tkd has broader hand techniques than boxing(boxer knows 5 or six,while tkd fighter knows >20)so, on my opinion,there is no need for boxing technique to be implemented to tkd
  9. EternalRage is offline
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    WARNING: BJJ may cause airway obstruction.

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    Posted On:
    6/25/2007 9:49am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Bajillion Joo Jizzu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Less ritual, less hung up about Korea etc
    Fewer or no forms, far less dead training
    Heavier/fewer rules sparring

    I think the last one would be a key driver in changing the art - as soon as you say "it's ok to catch those kicks" and "heavy punches to the face are ok" it inhibits people from bouncing around doing the whole TKD dancing thing whilst sparring. Go further and say "cjlinching is ok" and before you know it either some MT guy will join and start manhandling everyone (whih in healthy club would mean people start training what he's using to dominate), or at the min people start reading up on clinching and bastard MT ensues.

    So at what point wold it stop being Taekwondo?

    Is this identity thing one of the things holding Taekwondo back?
    From what I understand/from what I'm told, that's the way it used to be. I dunno if that's propaganda to make TKD seem more "badass" simply based on it's early days, but if it's true, it wouldn't be so much improving it as taking it back to what it originally was.

    I'd like to think TKD wasn't as much of a slap happy, strapping giant maxipads to your chest clusterfuck.

    It might end up looking like basic kickboxing, ie the WCL, so it may be an identity problem. After all, TKD was formed when the Korean government was trying to recreate the Korean national identity, so I wouldn't be surprised if they were a little hesitant to give that up.
  10. Kintanon is offline
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    Yes, I am smarter than you are.

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    Posted On:
    6/25/2007 10:13am

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: TKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well, the ITF allows all kinds of face punching... at the 2004 World Cup I ended up with two black eyes from it. In general if the ITF allowed leg kicks they would have what I would consider to be the best possible rule set for full contact TKD sparring. As is they allow punching to the face, kicking to the head and body, punching to the body (though it isn't really scored) and the matches are continuous 2 minute rounds. The contact level is generally pretty high in the tournaments at the BB level. So, could be worse.
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