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  1. mda123 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/23/2007 9:22am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Tang Soo Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    TSD - looking for additional style to study

    I am a 1st degree Black belt in Tang Soo Do (Moo Duk Kwan).
    I've had more than a decade of absence and I have just returned, but now I am considering studying with the World TSD Organization. (based on availability) (not really sure about the differences, though)
    I really like what TSD offers, especially at the Black belt level (although I only began to learn the advanced techniques)
    , but I was looking to study an additional style.

    I did some youtubing, and seem to like what I see with bujinkan ninjutsu and some aspects of Muay Thai.

    Any thoughts of people studying TSD, likes - dislikes.

    Open to hearing thoughts of other styles.
  2. Matt W. is offline
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    Community Corrections Officer

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    Posted On:
    6/23/2007 11:07am

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, TKD BB

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You definitely should learn to grapple. Solid grappling arts like Judo, wrestling and BJJ are commonly available and have pretty good quality control, though individual clubs may vary. If for some reason you do not want to learn to grapple I would say you're being foolish. But if that's the case, then I would suggest a striking art that is known for being a straight forward, hard fighting art.

    Boxing or Muay Thai/Kick boxing. See how your TSD stacks up and whether or not it was giving you real practical fighting skills. If you walk into a boxing/kickboxing gym and get OWNED, then you know that TSD wasn't teaching you to fight. If you hold your own, great, your TSD was worthwhile, but you still will learn things to add to your game.
  3. mda123 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/23/2007 11:37am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Tang Soo Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks for the response.
    I do agree that TSD doesn't really address the grappling issue, which is maybe part of the reason why I am seeking to fill that void, or missing areas.
    What I liked about the bujinkan techniques, were the close contact take-downs, and variety of attacks and quickness of it all. Not to say that the advanced moves in TSD don't address them, I'm still learning them (or will be).
    I do like TSD for the aspect of it's tradition, inherent teachings and that it's not as much of direct "practical fight" style as another might be, since my lifestyle doesn't lend itself to random street fights. (not knocking TSD what-so-ever - it has taught me a lot - and there are plenty of practical techniques to be used).

    But thanks again Matt, I appreciate the input, I'll research the Judo a bit more.....
  4. Matt W. is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/23/2007 11:53am

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, TKD BB

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've never done it, but the Bujinkan has a terrible reputation. Dead training, no sparring, fabricated or at least questionable history. Most people here would tell you to avoid it like the plague. Plus I can guarantee you that anything the Bujinkan teaches about grappling Judo, wrestling and BJJ do better. Because they are arts that specialize in grappling, unlike the Buj. Furthermore, the arts I named all have proven records of effectiveness in the area of grappling, whereas the Buj does not.

    Frankly, I'm a bit off put that you would come to THIS site and spout off about how you are interested in the Bujinkan. Did you bother to lurk and read this site for a while before posting? Do you know what the mission of this site is? Are you familiar with the concept of aliveness? If you were you'd either have realized that the Bujinkan is bullshido, or at least that nobody here thinks anything good about it. So, I suggest you learn about those things before posting more. You may decide this site isn't for you. Or you may have your eyes opened. Either way...
  5. mda123 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/23/2007 12:04pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Tang Soo Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well yes, I actually did read many areas of the forum and site, including the the opinions of different styles.
    That's why I'm asking questions ...... in a forum, ... and that's why you are answering. Discussion.

    I don't just read something, and accept it as fact.
    And I don't think I was "spouting" about anything. Simply trying to get information and thoughts, which you seem to be offended by. Offense taken from honest questions seems a little bullshido to me.

    But I do appreciate your opinions, Thanks again....
  6. Matt W. is offline
    Matt W.'s Avatar

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    Posted On:
    6/23/2007 12:21pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, TKD BB

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My offense wasn't taken from any question, honest or otherwise. It was taken from you claiming "[I] seem to like what I see with bujinkan ninjutsu." Really? You seem to like completely dead training, a lack of sparring, a terrible reputation and unproven effectiveness? See, that's a problem.

    Now, maybe you didn't realize those things. That's why I suggested you might want to read up on aliveness and the mission of this site. Then, you can evaluate things for yourself. And all of that still begs the question why you would come on a site where there are multiple threads trashing the Buj, and ninjitsu and post "hey this stuff looks cool!" lol Seriously, dude, what were you thinking?

    Meh. Eitherway, I care not. Do what you want. But if you want to actually, you know, be able to grapple, you'll follow my advice.
  7. mda123 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/23/2007 12:50pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Tang Soo Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Seriously, I do appreciate how you reacted to the Buj question. I've looked at the youtube videos with some more scurtiny, and will do some more to find out what it is that I'm searching for.
    For example, I was focusing on the close arm locks and quick take-downs, but it did seem to be a small percentage of what they were doing in the videos i watched. I was ignoring the wall climbing and flips, which, yes is supremely unpractical. So, it might not be the answer.

    What is it about Judo that you are attracted to? Do find it's a good compliment to your TKD? Did you consider any other style, was anything else available in your area? Or is it most useful for what your needs are?
  8. Tangent is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/23/2007 12:57pm


     Style: Tae Kwon Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    First, based purely on reputation alone, don't train with the Bujinkan.

    Secondly, I would say that we would need more information from you in order to honestly and correctly answer your question, and the best information that you could give us is an answer to the following question:

    Why do you train in the martial arts?

    or

    What goals do you have for yourself and for your training?

    If your goal is fighting proficiency, every art that Matt mentioned will be echoed by everyone else on these boards. If your goal is something else, then we could be more specific.

    Additionally, I don't think this thread belongs in the KMA forum, unless you're looking specifically for other Korean arts to augment your current Korean art. Newbietown or YMAS are probably better locations.
  9. DerAuslander is offline
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    Valiant Monk of Booze & War

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    Posted On:
    6/23/2007 1:27pm

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: BJJ/C-JKD/KAAALIII!!!!!!!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Tangent, I'll be the one to decide where his post belongs.

    He asked a question of Dangsudo practitioners, thus his post belongs here.

    Quote Originally Posted by mda123
    I've had more than a decade of absence and I have just returned, but now I am considering studying with the World TSD Organization. (based on availability) (not really sure about the differences, though)
    I have never heard of that organization. Who is it's head? Do you have a website?

    The two people I would recommend studying with in the field of Dangsudo are Master John Hancock and Master Jay Penfil. John Hancock has a reputation of being completel no bullshit, however, he has closed his school and is only taking private students last I heard.

    Jay Penfil is extremely approachable, and in my opinion, is one of the most technically and structurally sound Korean karate practitioners ever, and is known for his ability to think outside the box. An hour with him will give you more information on t3h r34l Dangsudo than a lifetime with most grandmasters, Korean or otherwise. What he teaches is a quantum leap forward from what you find in most karate schools.

    Quote Originally Posted by mda123
    I really like what TSD offers, especially at the Black belt level (although I only began to learn the advanced techniques) , but I was looking to study an additional style.
    If you are looking to round out your skill set, I would highly recommend Judo. Combined with good Dangsudo training, the ability to throw and take falls will definitely fill in the gaps in your toolbox.

    Or, should you want to take your striking in a different avenue, I would definitely look into Muay Thai, though you may find an easier transition to Kyokushin or one of its offshoots.
  10. Tangent is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/23/2007 1:45pm


     Style: Tae Kwon Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Errant108
    Tangent, I'll be the one to decide where his post belongs.

    He asked a question of Dangsudo practitioners, thus his post belongs here.
    Sorry buddy, powertrip much? It was just a suggestion - obviously I don't make the final decision. If I did, I would have already moved it. It is a very general question that doesn't necessarily require KMA practitioners to answer it... but alas, you are right, as per...

    "Any thoughts of people studying TSD..."

    As such, I officially relinquish all of my KMA Forum powers to you. Please do not take this responsibility lightly.
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