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  1. kenpochrstn is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/06/2007 8:14pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: EPAK

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It really depends on who your instructor is as to how different they are in application. The approach to the 2 systems can be very different while the 2 can be very simular. For example in the Tracy system you can go overboard with the numerous variations of the same technique, and you can go just as overboard in the EPAK system with the "conceptulization"(see overcomplicating) of techniques.
  2. krazy kaju is offline
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    I'm not witty enough for this custom title.

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    Posted On:
    11/07/2007 8:08pm


     Style: In Hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by kenpochrstn
    It really depends on who your instructor is as to how different they are in application. The approach to the 2 systems can be very different while the 2 can be very simular. For example in the Tracy system you can go overboard with the numerous variations of the same technique, and you can go just as overboard in the EPAK system with the "conceptulization"(see overcomplicating) of techniques.
    No, again, the 'techniques' of the majority of kenpo styles are not practical. Moves such as "twisting talon," "knee of vengeance," and "clutching feathers" have little practicality in real fighting, whether in the ring or on the street.

    As I have stated previously, it doesn't matter what style of kenpo your practice, what does matter is how much emphasis your dojo puts on realistic training, such as (for striking schools) effective kickboxing sparring and drilling.
  3. bushi_no_ki is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/07/2007 11:49pm


     Style: TMA, MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Eh, kaju, I have seen hair get pulled in a fight (two men, no ****), and I might not go for the pressure point strike in Clutching Feathers, but I would use the trap and possible draw, as well as a punch to the ribs, and go from there. Good principals, just needs some tweeking.
  4. Ke?poFist is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/08/2007 3:59am

    supporting member
     Style: Kaju, BJJ, Judo, Kempo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by bushi_no_ki
    Eh, kaju, I have seen hair get pulled in a fight (two men, no ****), and I might not go for the pressure point strike in Clutching Feathers, but I would use the trap and possible draw, as well as a punch to the ribs, and go from there. Good principals, just needs some tweeking.
    I would punch him in the face, inside leg trip him as he staggers back and choke him out.
    Knowing is not enough, you must apply...
    ...Willing is not enough you must do
    ~Bruce Lee

  5. jdinca is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/08/2007 1:18pm


     Style: Chinese Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KempoFist
    I would punch him in the face, inside leg trip him as he staggers back and choke him out.
    An excellent use of kenpo. :icon_razz
  6. steveg54 is offline

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    11/08/2007 6:39pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: wing chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by krazy kaju
    Actually, the Tracy System of Kenpo Karate would classify as a martial art.

    And you have been implying that all (or at least a vast majority of) schools teaching Tracy Kenpo teach ineffective techniques and methods of self defense.

    I personally know of two Tracy Kenpo schools, the only legitimate two in my state, both of which train in a much more alive manner using rather much more effective techniques than most other TMA schools in my area.


    In most TMAs, if you find a competent instructor, what they will be teaching will be spectacularly different from what the original TMA taught. As an example, a competent Karate instructor will not only teach you the traditional kata and traditional techniques (such as chambered punches), but also teach you practical and effective techniques such as reliable strikes (jabs, crosses, elbows, etc.) from a kickboxing/muay thai stance.

    The same goes for any reliable instructor.

    Now, if you actually look at the traditional techniques of both Parker AKK and Tracy AKK, you will see that they are EXTREMELY similar.

    For example:

    Ed Parker Kenpo

    and also

    Tracy Kenpo

    As you can see, there are some similarities in the techniques that go beyond the fact that they are largely ineffective, make use of circular strikes (such as the so-called "Karate chop"), and use kung-fu style 'flurry strikes'.

    Furthermore, I know as a fact that many Ed Parker AK techniques are incorporated into the Tracy System (as the Tracy brothers were students of Ed Parker). I would think, considering that you claimed to be a black belt of both styles, that you would know this.


    I'm already practicing one of the most popular combat sports in the world. I don't need you to lecture me on the virtues of drilling and sparring.

    First, I am not lecturing you on anything. I dont give a crap what you study. Second..yes, I have noticed the techniques are similar..duh!!...BUT...its not the techniques...its what lies beneath that makes the system work. If you wanna waste your money learning that bullshit DO it...jeeeezzz.
  7. Ke?poFist is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/08/2007 6:48pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kaju, BJJ, Judo, Kempo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by steveg54
    BUT...its not the techniques...its what lies beneath that makes the system work.
    What does this mean?
    Knowing is not enough, you must apply...
    ...Willing is not enough you must do
    ~Bruce Lee

  8. Frank White is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/08/2007 9:36pm


     Style: chinese boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Maybe it means "**** techniques, just punch the guy already!"
  9. steveg54 is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/10/2007 9:01am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: wing chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KempoFist
    What does this mean?
    It means there is more to the system than learning a bunch of techniques. Find your self a good American Kenpo instructor and get the answer. Or, go to a Tracy guy and get a blank look. (By the way, I know there are Tracy guys who can spar, kick box, shoot fight, fight...etc...I am critical of Tracy KENPO...not the people who train hard and mix other things into their training in order to find what works. I am sure there are MANY TRacy guys out there who have gotten tired of practicing a system that overwhelmes them with hundres of techniques that dont work. But, it makes money for the school owner teaching private lessons.
  10. MrRazor is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/10/2007 3:07pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Kenpo Karate (Tracy's)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've trained with Al Tracy briefly and heard many of his stories of his days with Ed Parker. The systems are nearly identical. He and his brothers trained with Ed Parker in LA and earned their black belts and eventually moved on to open their own studios in San Jose. Mr Tracy at times trained with Prof. Chow (Mr Parker's instructor) and Great Grand Master James Mitose. As I recall Mr Mitose granted Al Tracy his highest rank which I believe is 9th black? They were like a family and had their differences from time to time and from that and some evolution in style the Kata have some differences and the techniques have different names but mostly the essence is still the same.

    Mr Tracy has a great website with history documented and more accurate than I can quote.

    I don't really need to leave the url as it is really simple but it is at www.tracyskarate.com
    Last edited by MrRazor; 11/10/2007 3:09pm at . Reason: typo
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