...again when do we leap from ignorance into research.
I am assuming you have done limited research as well...Tracy System techniques don't work? Then neither do American Kenpo techniques. Look or speak to someone who studies them both or at least TK since you study AK. Many of the techniques are the same (i.e. Delayed Sword, Five Swords, Kimono Grab, etc.) Therefore, if they don't work then we should throw both systems out as crap...or we could actually research before we speak so we don't look ignorant in what we say.
Originally Posted by steveg54
Maybe here, especially on this site, we should remember this line from "300" spoken by Leonidas:
Before you speak, Persian, know that in Sparta everyone, even a king’s messenger, is responsible for the words of their voice.
Are you sure you were an instructor?
I am finding it hard to believe that you were an instructor through the Tracy System. The reason I make this claim is that you say the system is not well organized and that the techniques are "cliff hangers" and you prefer to teach the techniques to completion instead.
Originally Posted by TenTigers
The system is well organized, although any system can be changed for the better. The techniques are taught as a natural progression, geared toward the student with no martial knowledge. In this way they can master the basic techniques and flow into their additions or variations when they reach that level. Each technique in itself is complete, everything else is a variation of the technique.
To run them all together and as you have said "teach to completion" would be like taking a first grade student with no true writing foundation (the yellow belt student) teaching them the alphabet, then moving right into the writing of an essay complete with thesis statements, supporting evidence, and semantic organization. It just doesn't make sense, that is why we teach a small bit at a time ensure mastery or movement toward mastery then add as they learn, just as a student learns the alphabet, then words, then sentences, and eventually paragraphs and essays as they move toward mastery of the language.
If you were an instructor, what is your instructor certification number?
My goodness, I almost didn't see this since you are replying to a comment I made over two years ago.
Originally Posted by kenpo sage
No, I have not studied Tracy's Kenpo in the past nor did I ever claim to. That's, you know, part of the reason why I started this thread to begin with.
As far as the number of technique variation goes, I made the comment because Tracy's Kenpo curriculum requires 381 self defense techniques and 219 variations (http://www.tracyskarate.com/beltsyst...er/beltreq.htm), whereas American Kenpo only requires 154 techniques total(http://www.akikenpo.com/Kenpo-Journal.htm). It's not really an assumption IMO when there really is such a huge difference in the number of techniques required per system.
Thank you for the thread contribution though.
Wow, that was a large gap in the response!
Well, you did get me on that one and I should have been a little more observant upon the date it was posted. Nonetheless, the argument I presented is valid. It is not just you, but anyone who takes such a leap with words without researching to what they are referring.
Originally Posted by Nathan McScary
I included this quote you made to remind you of what you originally said that fueled part of my response. You talk about what they make you memorize and that they allow for no individual variation or development, but as you have just said you have never studied either style so I postulate, how would you truly know.
Again, the private lessons; is it better to learn one on one with individual attention or in a group setting? We in education constantly refer to the teacher student ratio, of the smaller the ratio the better the learning as evidenced through study after study. This is the same argument. We have recently had two former AK practitioners join our school and they refer to AK as the Cliffs Notes of Kenpo once they began studying Tracy's Kenpo, I would agree since I have studied both as well and believe both styles of Kenpo are excellent.
I hope you are studying something, but if not give one of these a chance and don't worry about style loyalty, but truly see what each has to offer through experience not just reading.
Again, sorry about the two year gap.
This guy has not experienced both...
I am busy commenting on posts that were made almost two years ago as I was informed, but I want anyone, like myself who was reading this post for the first time to be informed.
Originally Posted by steveg54
If Steveg54 had actually experienced both he would have known that many of the techniques are the same between the styles. Further, maybe he just is not that good and maybe he really never had a black belt in both. If he ever does read this again, it would be interesting if he would post his black belt number as EVERY Tracy black belt has a number on their black belt certificate even the highest ranks.
They are both affective arts, but as with any art it depends on how much time you put into your training. I am assuming this guy probably does not train anymore in anything.
Don't listen to this guy, check them out for yourself, look up the sites. Here are a couple very good Tracy Kenpo Guys and Two very good American Kenpo Guys:
Good luck and don't trust the arm chair martial artist.
Try them both out
Take this for what it is; both schools should allow you a trial period. I study both systems still, and enjoy both. Each has pros and cons. I am still Tracy bias, because I love to continue to learn and gather knowledge, and also because I am aware that although they do have many techniques, you will not always use all of them, but you will begin to develop an individual purpose in your study.
Originally Posted by Maverick21
However, both are great and I suggest you try them out and decide what is best for you. Again, the more you put into it the better you will be, it is not the style but your own dedication.
The more you train, the more prepared you will be if your skill is ever called upon to defend your family or friends.
Interestingly, the techniques as you move through the black belt ranks and that of black belt are not necessarily more complex, as they are extensions of concepts already learned in the lower ranks.
Originally Posted by Sikaranista
Therefore, where the techniques appear more complex to the novice, the student studying for that rank discovers that the movements or the way the practitioner moves or strikes is similar to what he/she has learned over the course of their study.
There's a lot of good information in this thread. There aren't any Kenpo schools close to where I live so I'm having to pick up information piecemeal. I've got a solid taekwondo foundation and feel like I can adapt techniques effectively to suit my fighting style. There's enough information in this one thread to keep me busy for a while. Thanks to everyone that's posted.
I second that!
Originally Posted by BackFistMonkey
Three years on and I have an observation; what Kenpo calls techniques are really combinations of techniques. When I started researching Kenpo I wanted to learn individual techniques that I hadn't experienced in my taekwondo background, and I have. Some of them are the same moves with different names, but there are definitely some that are unique to Kenpo that I haven't seen in my other studies. At any rate, I still haven't attended any Kenpo classes because there's no one close enough to me to justify the travel and the prices are a bit on the steep side. I've learned through video and one-on-one with individual practitioners and for the most part it's been a positive experience.