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  1. nerveasian is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/21/2007 8:35am


     Style: Getting mounted

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Snatch/OHS shoulder biomechanics

    Question with El Macho in mind, but obviously anyone is welcome to give input -

    A couple months ago, I started incorporating snatches and overhead squats into my training program. I suffered from the shoulder "flexibility" issues that it seems like everyone has when they start these lifts - namely, I can't hold my arms far enough back to keep the weight over my base of support. Consequently, I'm unstable and wobbly as hell when I do these lifts. I've been using extremely minimal weight (just the barbell, sometimes even just two 15-lb. dumbbells...:icon_sad:) to try to perfect my form before adding weight.

    The reason I put "flexibility" in quotes is because the biomechanics of this problem are a complete fucking mystery to me. Everyone refers to this as a flexibility issue - i.e. there's some muscle group that's tight and resisting extension, limiting my range of motion. Following this line of reasoning, I hypothesized that the tight muscle groups preventing me from rolling my shoulder back must be in my anterior shoulder and chest. So I started doing door frame stretches, and now my pecs feel great, but I still can't snatch or overhead squat with comfortable stability.

    I've been skeptical of the relevance of "flexibility" because when I do the lifts, the strain that I feel in my shoulder isn't an extending pull on a tight muscle. It's more like my trapezius can't contract enough to squeeze itself into a small enough space to allow my arm to move all the way back. The sensation is that at full contraction, my trapezius is still too big, and it acts like a sort of muscle wall that blocks my scapula and shoulder from rolling as far back as I need to roll for snatch stability. It feels like the problem is limited range of motion of flexion rather than extension.

    What do you think about my reasoning here? In any case, more than two months of regular, consistent snatches and overhead squats with minimal weight accompanied by shoulder stretches have created no results for me. What would you suggest to correct this problem?
  2. PirateJon is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/21/2007 12:57pm

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     Style: MT/BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Never had a problem, but

    I can't hold my arms far enough back to keep the weight over my base of support.
    So you can't hold your arms up and slightly behind your head?
    You can't make people smarter. You can expose them to information, but your responsibility stops there.
  3. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/21/2007 1:31pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    nerveasian, me no expert. I just been doing OHS for less than a year, and only on occasions. But I have question. Are you using a wide (snatch) grip? That's a necesity.

    Also, and this is where others may correct me (PJ, Res Judicata, Emevas, sh0t), you also need a wider foot stance when doing these. At least that's how it feels the best for me.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  4. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/21/2007 6:38pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    CrossFit OHS Basics - I think this should also be applicable to questions of flexibility for cleans
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIBnUGxpJQE

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIBnUGxpJQE

    Elements of the OHS

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZpGzwgMr9o

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZpGzwgMr9o

    Issues with the Push Press (somewhat applicable to the top position of the snatch and OHS

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNcDImc6_h0

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNcDImc6_h0
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  5. nerveasian is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/22/2007 9:08am


     Style: Getting mounted

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I tried that grip-finding exercise in the first video and found that my "sticky point" occurs with my grip so wide that when the bar is directly overhead, it only clears the top of my head by about an inch. If my grip goes any closer than that, I can't roll my shoulders through without considerable joint-popping pain. (Incidentally, those Crossfit girls are HOT.)

    I uploaded a video of myself doing some overhead squats with some random piece of metal tubing I found on the fabrication floor (weighs maybe 20 pounds max). Critique my form!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgTgd4A2Yjw

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