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  1. lacy378 is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/07/2007 1:36am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Jujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "I look at sport fighting like going to a firing range. Use it to help sharpen your skill. " Wow. Lil guy 1 You really didn't read , or at the very least understand my post. I'm really ready to quit defending myself here lest I be labeled a troll for diverting this thread from its original topic. Whom ever wants to discuss it further can send me a message or something. Thanks.
  2. LI GUY 1 is offline
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    GIJoe6186 like boys, mainly his brother

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    Posted On:
    8/07/2007 1:47am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I read and I understand. The point I don't get is that you think competing regularly would hinder your "no rules" mentality. Not competing is fine, its not required to be good. But to think competing regularly hinders you on the street is wrong.


    You stated you don't want your mind to be guided by rules, so you don't compete often. I agree with you on the rest(using sport to hone technique) just not that part.

    I believe competing would help you more on the street as it would improve your overall skill set. It would help you handle the adrenaline dump and experience getting hit full power by someoen who wants to hurt you. You can't replicate that in sparring at your school.
  3. Permalost is offline
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    8/07/2007 3:04am

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I actually have on old David James VAJ VHS called "Take It To Them." It shows a few techniques-
    1. Touch and go- against haymaker/other attack: slap forearm with both palms, lead backfist to face, lead hammerfist to neck, cross to face, hammerfist to groin, uppercut to solar plexis, grab head + knee to face, inside shin kick takedown, stomp him out. He shows the initial 3 moves using focus mitts, and notes the durability of the hammerfist compared to the knuckles.
    2. Shoulder twist into strangle hold- against agressive pushing and such- grab head + headbutt to face, knee to groin, twist shoulder into standing RNC, kick leg + drop him into knee in back position. Follow with strikes to face/throat. Drop him down and continue beating. He notes using the face claw to pull head back in case opponent tries to throw you during standing RNC "in case he got judo skills".
    3. Motion causes motion- pre-emptive strike against agressive pushing. Try to put your hands on his arms to calm him down. When he pushed lead hand off, follow with palm heel under chin, drive through to nearest wall, inside shin kick, football kick to balls (alternatively, various strikes into hockey jersey takedown to stomping out).
    4. Man charging- underhooks + knees against a "bum rush", assuming you made a mistake and shoved a guy back in "verbal combat". Move into standing elbow lock + vertical shin kick to face. Move into finger lock.
    5. Side Angle- Against an attacker "flexin/frontin", blade your body + chop throat, uppercut to chin, hooks to face, bolo to groin, attack back of head (alternatively, after chop, push him into wall, kick to knee, inside shin kick, pull him down to ground).
    6. Money in the Back Pocket- man tries to mug you- tell him money is in back pocket as you angle body and reach back, lead backhand to groin, follow with upward slap under chin into chop to throat, cross, shove into nearest wall + follow up (for the ladies, instead of push into wall, grab shoulders and repeatedly front kick to groin). "The money's in my back pocket!" followed by a groin strike was a running joke between me and a few people after we saw this.
    7. Shocking the eye- as a pre-emptive strike, eye jab, uppercut to solar plexis, go into standing armbar to wristlock to bring him down so you can kick him in the face.

    Overall, it was kind of a cool video. David James reminds me of a psychopathic James Brown. The video is pretty funny- his kiais would put all kempo and san soo people to shame, and they are often words like "BAM!" and "WHAP!". He also really seems to hit his partner in the throat repeatedly and doesn't let up the pressure when his partner taps hard and screams like a girl (kind of a dick move on James' part). The way it was trained was very realistic, though (lots of yelling, cursing etc as part of the prefight). Its definitely not stuff to replace grappling and striking, but a fighter might do well to train in some of the "verbal combat" pre-fight stuff that goes on. He also emphasizes that they aren't trained as by-rote combinations- only the first one or two moves are the technique, and the followups are just recommendations- they can be whatever you want.
  4. FictionPimp is offline

    Sexiest Punching Bag Alive

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    Posted On:
    8/07/2007 6:52am


     Style: BJJ/Judo/Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by lacy378
    Fiction Pimp "Your understand of the guard is lacking, Train more, talk less." Oh, and GoldenJonas .. Seriously.. Read my profile before you kids spout off about my lack of experience. Traditional closed guard, with your back flat on the mat allows for someone to knee you in the groin. I've done, its been done to me. Now, if you don't lay flat on your back ( as is propping yourself up on one side or the other) then you easily avoid that. But, then again most people learn to adopt an active, rather than passive guard anyway. The guard is not the Holy grail and anyone who's done more than sport fighting understands this. Next time you go to pass your buddies guard ( the typical push up off his stomach, back straight posture) punch him in the balls before you do. That'll add a little more reality to your training . Any technique has its holes and if you have done ANY type of serious examination in your training you'd already know that. Ever been spiked on your head doing an armbar? I have and it was on concrete.. Not fun. The point of that statement was that up till that incident I had only done technique on mats and wasn't prepared for that. Now I am. I guess you guys train for sport, and that's fine. But don't tell me what can or can't happen in a guard. Or any other position. Cause ANYTHING can happen. If you want to seriously debate technique, I'm all for it. But if you want to come at me with insults. I'm waiting for you in Columbus , Ohio. We can meet face to face and debate technique the ol' fashioned way if you choose to go that route. Let's keep it civil boys, less your mouths get the better of you. I'm not here for a pissing contest on who's training background is better than who's.
    Ok, i'm just going to come out and say it. It is 100% freaking impossible for ANYONE to knee somone in the balls when they are in someones closed guard. I spent a good 5 minutes on this last night. You can knee me in the ass, you can knee me in the back, you can even drop elbows and punch me in the dick, but you can not knee my balls PEROID. you are freaking wrong. It just can't happen. My legs are wrapped tightly around your fucking waist. This means my balls are protected by my entire ass and sucked tight to your body. What you would have to do is open my guard, begin to pass it then drive a knee up the middle to even come close to kneeing me in my balls.

    Also lying with someone between your legs flat on your back is NOT a guard. I have NEVER been taught to do this in bjj. My instructor has told us many times lying flat on your back is asking to get punched in the face and passed, you might as well just open your guard and turtle up. The whole fucking purpose of the guard is an active defensive and offensive position. This means you are not just holding someone between your legs.

    I'm sorry, but my point still stands, learn more about the guard. Your understanding is lacking. Or, please post a video tutorial on kneeing the balls from the guard. If you do this, and it is found by the majority of bullshido posters as actually being a knee to the balls from inside the guard, and not a guard pass followed by a knee to the balls, or a log splitter guard pass, I will post a full video applogy.

    In regards to getting spiked doing an armbar. Again, why did this happen? From reading more posts, you were tired and did not use proper technique. Done properly it is very very hard for someone to spike you on your head while being armbared. You can hook the leg, you can break the arm, hell, you can abandon the position. I prefer to hook the leg.

    If you would like to meet up for friendly training. I might be in Columbus around sept. 28th for the ohio linux fest. I'm just waiting on the aproval from my company to buy tickets. They are sending me to Ann Arbor a few weeks before for Crystal Reports training, so I'm not 100% sure I can go to the linux fest yet.
    Last edited by FictionPimp; 8/07/2007 6:58am at .
    "a martial art that has no rules is nothing but violence" - Kenji Tomiki
  5. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/07/2007 7:36am

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by lacy378
    GoldenJonas... Okay. I'll grant that what I did then was retarded. But in that example I was 19 yrs old. With one year experience in jujitsu. I'm 27 now. Do you get my point now?.
    No, really, we don't. You willfully, with premeditation and with your full mental faculties presented a particular example as annecdotal evidence that BJJ is lacking for teh str33t (which is a topic in its own right.)

    Instead, that annecdotal evidence serves better to demonstrate your ignorance (past and present) of guard play (and BJJ/grappling in general) and logic as well as your youthfull stupidity and inexperience (past and present.)

    The later does not imply the former.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  6. AbeVargas is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/07/2007 8:00am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by lacy378
    AbeVargas.. Do police officers train for sport? Does the military? I like testing myself in sport matches, to make sure my technique is good. But I don't train for sport. I train to protect myself. Plain and simple. I look at sport fighting like going to a firing range. Use it to help sharpen your skill. But I don't compete often cause I don't want my mind to and my training to get used to being guided by "rules".

    Guess what they taught us in basic training? I'll give you a clue: The initials are BJJ.

    The reality is, the ONLY way the prepare for "the street" is by participating in real MMA sparring and competition. Unless you've come up with a way to practice eye gauges, finger breaking, or nut-jabbing in a "realistic" way, you just don't know what you're talking about buddy.
  7. lacy378 is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/08/2007 2:44am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Jujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Fiction Pimp. I'm all for it. Let me know when you'll be here, I'll make time. I live really close to the convention center and there are plenty of parks in the area to train in.

    As for Tehl, I take it when you began your training you performed all of your techniques flawlessly? Please.

    And Abe vargas how many arms, necks, legs have you broken? Does cranking on someone till they tap you ( and indication that the other person feels pain, or wishes to be let go not an indication of actual harm inflicted) a realistic way to train yourself to break limbs or choke someone to death? But, that is how we train. I can dig my fingers into your eyes just enough to cause some pain, but not enough to blind you. You can train finger breaking and kicking to the balls exactly the same way you train everything else. You use protection and you don't go full force. Boxers only spar full force when they have head gear on to protect themselves cause injury means no money. The rest of their training includes shadow boxing, bag work etc. Many arts do the same thing with respect to training striking AND submissions. By your assertion then I should break my partners arm every time I slap on an ude garami. To keep it "realistic" and all.

    Remember people, what I put up here are my opinions and experiences. And though (in the armbar case) there are plenty of things someone can do to prevent being spiked ( and I do train them) , **** happens. If everything could perfectly be countered then we wouldn't have winners and losers in fights. But, **** happens.

    At no point have I ever claimed to be an expert or an authority on any technique ( look it up and prove me wrong if I've made such a claim). And none of you are either.

    I thought bullshido was actually for exchange of experiences, ideas and exposing fraudulent instructors. Instead it seems to be full of guys who want to fight , spout off and play the "my training is better than yours" game. That's fine. Like I said in a previous post. I'm in Columbus, Ohio. Find a way here and we'll hatch this out. Win lose or draw doesn't matter to me so long as its settled.

    If this is all bullshido is ,then please find the nearest moderator and ban me. Fiction Pimp.. If the offer is good, I'll be there on the 28th to train.
  8. GoldenJonas is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/08/2007 8:08am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by lacy378
    I thought bullshido was actually for exchange of experiences, ideas and exposing fraudulent instructors. Instead it seems to be full of guys who want to fight , spout off and play the "my training is better than yours" game....

    If this is all bullshido is ,then please find the nearest moderator and ban me. Fiction Pimp.. If the offer is good, I'll be there on the 28th to train.
    The problem you have encountered here is not a new one on these boards. Specifically, you made the following statements (paraphrased of course...

    1. Using a traditional static guard and trying to transition to an arm bar in a street fight are ineffective because you can get punched in the balls or picked up and slammed;

    2. You don't compete a lot because you don't want to get yourself into a "rules" mindset which could hinder your ability to effectively defend yourself in a street confrontation;

    The problem is that the second statements/arguments has been beaten and stomped on worse than any dead and rotting horse you can imagine. The first statement, while a possibility, simply indicates bad as opposed to inherently flawed technique. Couple these statements with the age old "sport fighter -vs- street fighters" training fallacies and your begging to get flamed and verbally attacked on these boards.

    Start a thread in gitmo concerning the "knee to balls" guard counter if you want; frankly, I've never heard of it AND I have never had it done to me. I roll about 8 hours per week with recreational grapplers to pro (UFC) fighters and with White through Brown belts in BJJ and HAVE NEVER been kneed or punched in the nuts while holding closed guard. But, as you say, anything is possible.

    What happened to HAKIM?
  9. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/08/2007 8:29am

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Anatomically speaking, it is nearly impossible to get kneed in the balls by someone in your closed guard.

    Say John has Bob in his closed guard and Bob's want to knee John's babymaker. Inside John's closed guard, Bob's kneecap will most likely hit the ground (or the yummy concrete on the str33t) before reaching the intended target.

    That is, if Bob's quad of the traveling knee is perpendicular to the ground. If it's at an angle, the Bob's quadriceps will hit John's hamstring midsection or closer to the knee joint.

    Unless Bob is deformed and his legs are 50% the length they should be, or if he's able to break the closed guard enough (and doesn't get sweeped while raising his knee to deliver the nut-killer, or if John opens his guard, then maybe. And unless you are a phenom, trying to use an open guard in the str33t would be a defining characteristic of mental retardation.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  10. FictionPimp is offline

    Sexiest Punching Bag Alive

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    Posted On:
    8/08/2007 8:59am


     Style: BJJ/Judo/Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I will know by the end of next week if I am going to the ohio linux fest. Although I prefer training in a gym rather then a park, but I'm game for trying new things.
    "a martial art that has no rules is nothing but violence" - Kenji Tomiki
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