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  1. lacy378 is offline

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    8/06/2007 3:40pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Jujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Fiction Pimp "Your understand of the guard is lacking, Train more, talk less." Oh, and GoldenJonas .. Seriously.. Read my profile before you kids spout off about my lack of experience. Traditional closed guard, with your back flat on the mat allows for someone to knee you in the groin. I've done, its been done to me. Now, if you don't lay flat on your back ( as is propping yourself up on one side or the other) then you easily avoid that. But, then again most people learn to adopt an active, rather than passive guard anyway. The guard is not the Holy grail and anyone who's done more than sport fighting understands this. Next time you go to pass your buddies guard ( the typical push up off his stomach, back straight posture) punch him in the balls before you do. That'll add a little more reality to your training . Any technique has its holes and if you have done ANY type of serious examination in your training you'd already know that. Ever been spiked on your head doing an armbar? I have and it was on concrete.. Not fun. The point of that statement was that up till that incident I had only done technique on mats and wasn't prepared for that. Now I am. I guess you guys train for sport, and that's fine. But don't tell me what can or can't happen in a guard. Or any other position. Cause ANYTHING can happen. If you want to seriously debate technique, I'm all for it. But if you want to come at me with insults. I'm waiting for you in Columbus , Ohio. We can meet face to face and debate technique the ol' fashioned way if you choose to go that route. Let's keep it civil boys, less your mouths get the better of you. I'm not here for a pissing contest on who's training background is better than who's.
  2. GoldenJonas is offline

    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    8/06/2007 3:55pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by lacy378
    Fiction Pimp "Your understand of the guard is lacking, Train more, talk less." Oh, and GoldenJonas .. Seriously.. Read my profile before you kids spout off about my lack of experience. Traditional closed guard, with your back flat on the mat allows for someone to knee you in the groin. I've done, its been done to me. Now, if you don't lay flat on your back ( as is propping yourself up on one side or the other) then you easily avoid that. But, then again most people learn to adopt an active, rather than passive guard anyway. The guard is not the Holy grail and anyone who's done more than sport fighting understands this. Next time you go to pass your buddies guard ( the typical push up off his stomach, back straight posture) punch him in the balls before you do. That'll add a little more reality to your training . Any technique has its holes and if you have done ANY type of serious examination in your training you'd already know that. Ever been spiked on your head doing an armbar? I have and it was on concrete.. Not fun. The point of that statement was that up till that incident I had only done technique on mats and wasn't prepared for that. Now I am. I guess you guys train for sport, and that's fine. But don't tell me what can or can't happen in a guard. Or any other position. Cause ANYTHING can happen. If you want to seriously debate technique, I'm all for it. But if you want to come at me with insults. I'm waiting for you in Columbus , Ohio. We can meet face to face and debate technique the ol' fashioned way if you choose to go that route. Let's keep it civil boys, less your mouths get the better of you. I'm not here for a pissing contest on who's training background is better than who's.
    My question to you is Why the hell did you pull guard in a Street Fight and why would you transition to an arm bar in a street fight and NOT break the arm? were you hoping he would tap?

    The problem with your examples is that you apparently took your "sport fighting", i.e., rules in place that dictate "don't punch guy in balls when you are in his guard", mentality into a situation were they were not appropriate OR into a situation where you failed to modify them appropriately so that they would be effective.

    Therefore, Fictionpimp's commentary is entirely on point, i.e., it is not "THE" guard that is faulted, it is "YOUR" guard that is faulted.

    BJJ is certainly NOT appropriate in ALL confrontations and even so, many of the core priciples and techniques must be modified and adapted to the particular situation.
  3. lacy378 is offline

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    8/06/2007 4:16pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Jujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    GoldenJonas... Okay. I'll grant that what I did then was retarded. But in that example I was 19 yrs old. With one year experience in jujitsu. I'm 27 now. Do you get my point now? We all start somewhere and experience teaches us. Actually I was armbarring someone who out weighed my by 50lbs and at that point in the fight I was battered and fatigued. Not my finest moment, but a lesson learned. I'm sure you've learned a few lessons via bumps and lumps along the way. I didn't say the guard is at fault, but it has its faults. And if you're a BJJ purist then I guess there is really no point in debating this with you. I'm going to agree to disagree on this one less this carries on for an entire thread.
  4. TKD Black Belt is offline
    TKD Black Belt's Avatar

    Keeeeee-Yeah!

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    Posted On:
    8/06/2007 5:33pm


     Style: Whoo-Hoo-Fu!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by HAKIM82
    GRAPPLING- IT IS EASY TO GRAPPLE AND BE GREAT AT IF THERE ARE SPORT RULES-TAKE AWAY THE RULES, ALLOW BITING, EYE GOUGING, TESTICLE GRABS -TAKE AWAY FOAM MATS, REFS AND THE MENTAL COMFORT ZONE OF ONE OPPONENT AND NO WEAPONS AND YOU WILL SEE THAT IF YOU SLIP A SUBMISSION WILL BE THE LEAST OF YOUR WORRIES.
    - A the 'deadly street' argument. The problem with this is that you can argue all you want that if you can bite my I won't be able to armbar but really what's stopping me from biting as well? Additionally, and I speak from experience here, whenever I've rolled with an RBSD guy they've used this argument only realize that grappling is less about 'submission' and more about 'positional dominance'. Once I'm in a dominant position the 'bite' or 'eye gouge' really becomes ineffective in relation to the elbows or knees I can land.

    Quote Originally Posted by HAKIM82
    GRAPPLING PT 2: AND IF A NON GRAPPLER BELIEVES THAT THE GRAPPLER CANNOT STRIKE AND AND CHOKE YOU OUT IF YOU SLIP IN A MATTER OF SECONDS YOU ARE FOOLING YOURSELVES.
    - I don't think anyone doubts this possibility but then you're saying that the 'nongrappler' would be trained in submissions or grappling in order to recognize the vulnerability when it happens.

    It sounds as though you've got a lot of interest but a limited amount of experience. Maybe you can use this enthusiasm to seek out new experiences where you can learn and see the answers to your questions.

    TKD

    THIS IS NOT AN EXIT


    "Ladies and gentlemen, the pilot has instructed everyone to sit the **** down and shut the **** up." Henry Rollins
  5. AbeVargas is offline
    AbeVargas's Avatar

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    8/06/2007 5:39pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by lacy378
    I guess you guys train for sport, and that's fine. But don't tell me what can or can't happen in a guard. Or any other position. Cause ANYTHING can happen.

    So, while everyone else here is training for sport, what exactly are you training for lacy?
  6. HAKIM82 is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/06/2007 6:35pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: vee arnis jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    TKD BLACKBELT: MY POINT IN WHICH YOU MISSED (BUT IN FACT - I AGREE WITH YOU TO SOME DEGREE) IS THAT GRAPPLING IS AN EFFECTIVE ART BUT WHEN A PERSON DOES NOT CHANGE THE STRATEGY IN A FIGHT AND STICK TO JUST GRAPPLING WHERE MORE THAN GRAPPLING AND VICE VESA. I KNOW FOR SURE THAT THE GROUND AND POUND IS VERY EFFECTIVE . AND IN MY PERSONAL SELF DEFENSE EXPERIENCE ( AN ACTUAL BRAWL) I HAVE USED IT . AND AS FAR AS NON-GRAPPLERS MY POINT ( CLARIFICATION) IS THAT YOU CANT ASSUME THAT A GRAPPLER CANNOT STRIKE AND SHOCK AND PULL OFF A PURE SUBMISSION. IF YOUR STRATEGY IS RIGID AND NON FLEXIBLE YOUR OPTIONS WILL BE THE SAME.

    MY EXPERIENCES BY THE WAY ARE VARIED SOME WINS, SOME LOSSES ON THE MAT AND AND THE ONES THAT REALLY COUNT OFF THE MAT AND I'M STILL HERE TO LIVE TO REFLECT UPON THEM. MY EXPERIENCES HAVE NOT BEEN LIMITING AT ALL.
  7. TKD Black Belt is offline
    TKD Black Belt's Avatar

    Keeeeee-Yeah!

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    Posted On:
    8/06/2007 10:43pm


     Style: Whoo-Hoo-Fu!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I truly have no idea what the **** you just said.

    Grappling/BJJ/Judo etc... is primarily about positional dominance. This means my game changes and shifts to meet the needs of the moment. For clarification GnP is a product of 'good position'. In just about every good jiu jitsu class you take one of the overriding principles is 'position before submission'. On my team, smashing your face till I win is a submission.

    Also, for the sake of my reading ease turn the caps 'lock off' (if you're having trouble finding it, just look to the left on your keyboard above the 'shift' ky and below the 'tab' key.) Thanks.

    TKD

    THIS IS NOT AN EXIT


    "Ladies and gentlemen, the pilot has instructed everyone to sit the **** down and shut the **** up." Henry Rollins
  8. Fantasy Warrior is offline
    Fantasy Warrior's Avatar

    Misguided style basher

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    Posted On:
    8/06/2007 11:25pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kata

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by HAKIM82
    TO Kick Catcher:
    ...My main problem with Killing Moon is that if you are going to qualify something as BullShit and then go on to say that you study elsewhere, etc,etc. Your credentials should be be offered as to give the reader of your words some idea that you have some knowledge that you may know what you are talking about and that you indeed have the background to look at one class and have the ability to determine that you indeed know what the hell you are talking about.
    Ad hominem defences are weak and shouldn't be encouraged. I respect your desire to defend your art but are you honestly saying that Killing Moon's account is inaccurate? I think his account was quite credible given the detail; what Killing Moon described is the familiar Lemon Attacker phenomenon which is in no way confined to your beloved art:


    It's a mistake to think that just because one element of an art is good, that the crap bits don't exist. The crap bits are still crap. Compliant defence training as per Killing Moon's description is ineffective training. I bet you any money good VAJ guys don't use the exact same defences in sparring in anything like that manner. As such the Randori is probably far better training for self-defence than the "Self-Defence" drills.

    I am personally uncomfortable with the term RBSD being applied to this compliant training. It plainly isn't realistic. VAJ may have RBSD elements but the practice being discussed is better described as LSD (Lemon's Self-Defence). I think it plays with the imagination.



    PS. The first time you wrote "Kia" I assumed it was a typo, but now I think someone ought to point out that Kia is a brand of car. I think you meant Kiai. Of course I didn't actually take you literally, but exaggeration is best warned about. Students exaggerating their instructors' abilities is part of what fuels Bullshidoism. As for noise distraction, we can discuss another time.
    You are a total Douchbag. Train more, post nevermore.
    FickleFingerOfFate -08-21-2007 08:59 AM

    just die already.
    Plasma - 08-20-2007 11:45 PM


    Aikidokkkkakkakakakaaaaa
    Best MA website ever!!!!!: http://www.dogjudo.co.uk/
  9. lacy378 is offline

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    8/07/2007 12:12am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Jujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    AbeVargas.. Do police officers train for sport? Does the military? I like testing myself in sport matches, to make sure my technique is good. But I don't train for sport. I train to protect myself. Plain and simple. I look at sport fighting like going to a firing range. Use it to help sharpen your skill. But I don't compete often cause I don't want my mind to and my training to get used to being guided by "rules".
  10. LI GUY 1 is offline
    LI GUY 1's Avatar

    GIJoe6186 like boys, mainly his brother

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    Posted On:
    8/07/2007 1:21am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Dude, the military and police train for sport, or at least use sport. PAL boxing (or all the other PAL leagues)???? Military has adopted/incorporated BJJ and MMA stuff. Hell they even have on base competitions I believe in some places.

    You can train for sport or for street. However you can USE sport to train for either.

    A MMA'ist does not have to fight MMA matches, they might just want to be better able to fight so they train MMA.

    I am not stupid enough to be following rules in a streetfight, while at the same time on the mat I know what not to do. Never had a problem.

    In fact, I (a currrent BJJ/ sometimes Thai guy, training for MMA competition) have always done well in my street fights. I gouged an eye last time (workes good, I did a jab with open fingers and caught him with my thumb)!!!! And I'm a "sportfighter"!! Who Knew!
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