Now, what do you do if you dont have a partner to work focus mitts with?
Omega, obvioulsy you can fight. And you trained forms. Logical fallacies aside, those two facts do carry some weight. But read my training log. I did a ton of forms in TKD. Last week I worked boxing with a trainer who was using focus mitts. Which did more for my punching? The answer is obvious. Coincidentally, the boxing training on mits also did more for my balance, coordination, footwork and (at least as much for) my conditioning than practicing forms would have. It also addressed responding to the movement and attacks of a real person which forms practice never would have done.
You do elaborate, scripted katas that nobody has ever used in an actual fight.
Originally Posted by AAAhmed46
95% eh? Well then I confess you'll have to help me out on the other 5%. Though to be fair to the little guys, the koala may indeed be the most intellegent thing from Australia...I'm just a lost Texan.
Originally Posted by Omega the Merciless
Poor Omega always gets caught up in defending forms,and trying to explain them.
Can't you link that one thread from CMA to here?
Forgot its name.
There you had a good explanation on forms and how you could use them.
Virus,the picture you posted is not a half guard practised in stance (gasp!) its a lok qei ma stance.
Looking at the guys uniform and handpositions i guess he's a choy lee fut practisioner from the plumblossom federation.
Read kickcatcher's cartoons if you didn't get the reference.
Oh...you mean it was a joke?
Originally Posted by Virus
Are you sure?
Was that sarcasm?
I wasn't sure it's so hard to tell these days...
You know I have no sense of humor...
Serious all the time...
And you rarely rib anybody...
Damn....I'll go get a joke detector and be back...
The other 5% is that kata is just a word. Every fighting system out there has "kata" in one form or another.....and then everything else you said. I think the big deal is that most of the "alive" practitioners don't want to be labled or caught doing the ghey ass kata an Asian dude under 5'5" nearly 100 years ago designed for himself when all there were were other mini Asian dudes around.
Originally Posted by Lv1Sierpinski
You know what you had to do in my system to "graduate" to instructor level?
Quote un quote from my sifu nearly 15 years ago "Good, now you memorize what everybody else did figure out something for yourself"
I went to my sihung and asked them what the **** did that mean. I was to design a form for myself, why I felt like it was designed for me, what it was supposed to do and a whole bunch of muck a much that I didn't really comprehend at the time and I don't want to bore you with.
My students can learn all the old traditional forms if they want after learning a solid base of stand-up and grappling which looks an awful like (yup you guessed it) Kickboxing and SAMBO(Jujitsu to some of you stubborn fucks). Or in other words MMA. And they train their basics with forms in case they don't have a partner. If they do have a partner then they can be used to for some resistance.
Oh and they have things like:
jab punch hook uppercut combo
But we all know that forms don't work.
Lv1, I understand what you and Omega are saying. But all of the forms I've seen taught in so-called TMAs (from my own TSD/TKD study, to my friends that studied CMA to the JMA kata I've seen) all seem to fit the definition of "bad kata." Unrealistic movements and techniques and an overemphasis on training them without any "alive" training to back them up.
Virus said, If the katas of "TMA" were just dead versions of techniques that work for the purpose of introduction and drilling then I don't think many people here would have a problem with them.
And I agree. But that is not what I've seen from katas in so called TMAs.
Oh, I freely admit that the TKD training I did initially had many flaws that all contributed to the lack of applicable skill they imparted. But my point was that all the punching I did training patterns did not, in fact, teach me to punch well, or against a live person.
....so you're saying you didn't do focus mitt work, and bag work, and freestyle movement, and you're going to blame TKD forms on that. How about, how would you have done doing those focus mitts if you didn't do those?
I just want to point out (since it was my rantings that stirred this pot again), that I don't have a problem with forms as long as it's filled with stuff you will actually use. And also there only needs to be like 1 or 2, not 30. It's dead training, which is necessary for alive training.
As long as you don't dead train with bullshido, forms are ok. My original posts that started this thread came from a talk on KMA forums, which nearly all are filled with bullshido.
But forms in theory are ok, I just want to clarify that I'm not a form hater despite the colorful title.
But you're a starwars nerd aren't you?
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