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  1. AAAhmed46 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/24/2007 1:09am


     Style: karate,MMA(between gyms)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Omega, obvioulsy you can fight. And you trained forms. Logical fallacies aside, those two facts do carry some weight. But read my training log. I did a ton of forms in TKD. Last week I worked boxing with a trainer who was using focus mitts. Which did more for my punching? The answer is obvious. Coincidentally, the boxing training on mits also did more for my balance, coordination, footwork and (at least as much for) my conditioning than practicing forms would have. It also addressed responding to the movement and attacks of a real person which forms practice never would have done.
    Now, what do you do if you dont have a partner to work focus mitts with?
  2. Virus is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/24/2007 2:54am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by AAAhmed46
    Now, what do you do if you dont have a partner to work focus mitts with?
    You do elaborate, scripted katas that nobody has ever used in an actual fight.
  3. Lv1Sierpinski is online now

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    Posted On:
    6/24/2007 4:36am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega the Merciless
    And here I thought the Koala was the most intellegent thing in Australia. You're 95% or so exactly what I was talking about.
    95% eh? Well then I confess you'll have to help me out on the other 5%. Though to be fair to the little guys, the koala may indeed be the most intellegent thing from Australia...I'm just a lost Texan.
  4. Lebell is offline
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    Just waiting for the paperboy.

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    Posted On:
    6/24/2007 6:30am

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    LOL!

    Poor Omega always gets caught up in defending forms,and trying to explain them.
    Can't you link that one thread from CMA to here?
    Forgot its name.
    There you had a good explanation on forms and how you could use them.

    Virus,the picture you posted is not a half guard practised in stance (gasp!) its a lok qei ma stance.
    Looking at the guys uniform and handpositions i guess he's a choy lee fut practisioner from the plumblossom federation.
  5. Virus is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/24/2007 6:52am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Read kickcatcher's cartoons if you didn't get the reference.
  6. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/24/2007 11:17am

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Virus
    Read kickcatcher's cartoons if you didn't get the reference.
    Oh...you mean it was a joke?

    Damn...

    Really?


    Are you sure?


    Was that sarcasm?


    I wasn't sure it's so hard to tell these days...


    You know I have no sense of humor...


    Serious all the time...


    And you rarely rib anybody...

    Damn....I'll go get a joke detector and be back...
  7. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/24/2007 11:29am

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lv1Sierpinski
    95% eh? Well then I confess you'll have to help me out on the other 5%. Though to be fair to the little guys, the koala may indeed be the most intellegent thing from Australia...I'm just a lost Texan.
    The other 5% is that kata is just a word. Every fighting system out there has "kata" in one form or another.....and then everything else you said. I think the big deal is that most of the "alive" practitioners don't want to be labled or caught doing the ghey ass kata an Asian dude under 5'5" nearly 100 years ago designed for himself when all there were were other mini Asian dudes around.

    You know what you had to do in my system to "graduate" to instructor level?

    Quote un quote from my sifu nearly 15 years ago "Good, now you memorize what everybody else did figure out something for yourself"

    I went to my sihung and asked them what the **** did that mean. I was to design a form for myself, why I felt like it was designed for me, what it was supposed to do and a whole bunch of muck a much that I didn't really comprehend at the time and I don't want to bore you with.

    My students can learn all the old traditional forms if they want after learning a solid base of stand-up and grappling which looks an awful like (yup you guessed it) Kickboxing and SAMBO(Jujitsu to some of you stubborn fucks). Or in other words MMA. And they train their basics with forms in case they don't have a partner. If they do have a partner then they can be used to for some resistance.

    Oh and they have things like:
    jab punch hook uppercut combo
    sprawl
    leg kicks
    knees
    elbows

    But we all know that forms don't work.

    :BangHead:
  8. Matt W. is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/24/2007 1:01pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, TKD BB

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Lv1, I understand what you and Omega are saying. But all of the forms I've seen taught in so-called TMAs (from my own TSD/TKD study, to my friends that studied CMA to the JMA kata I've seen) all seem to fit the definition of "bad kata." Unrealistic movements and techniques and an overemphasis on training them without any "alive" training to back them up.


    Virus said, If the katas of "TMA" were just dead versions of techniques that work for the purpose of introduction and drilling then I don't think many people here would have a problem with them.
    And I agree. But that is not what I've seen from katas in so called TMAs.

    ....so you're saying you didn't do focus mitt work, and bag work, and freestyle movement, and you're going to blame TKD forms on that. How about, how would you have done doing those focus mitts if you didn't do those?
    Oh, I freely admit that the TKD training I did initially had many flaws that all contributed to the lack of applicable skill they imparted. But my point was that all the punching I did training patterns did not, in fact, teach me to punch well, or against a live person.
  9. EternalRage is offline
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    WARNING: BJJ may cause airway obstruction.

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    Posted On:
    6/24/2007 1:16pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Bajillion Joo Jizzu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I just want to point out (since it was my rantings that stirred this pot again), that I don't have a problem with forms as long as it's filled with stuff you will actually use. And also there only needs to be like 1 or 2, not 30. It's dead training, which is necessary for alive training.

    As long as you don't dead train with bullshido, forms are ok. My original posts that started this thread came from a talk on KMA forums, which nearly all are filled with bullshido.

    But forms in theory are ok, I just want to clarify that I'm not a form hater despite the colorful title.
  10. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/24/2007 1:31pm

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    But you're a starwars nerd aren't you?

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