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  1. bearich is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/20/2007 8:23am


     Style: Karate / Judo Noob

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by zadar95
    My reply to Bearich! I think there should be a responsibility in what you sell to people and how you market that. To pack 3 DvDs with just strikes as your techniques you may as well join a McDojo because as a serious student and instructor I was quite dissapointed with the product as well as the claims of which none were fullfilled.
    I whole-heartedly agree that one should take responsibility in what you sell to people. Unfortunately that's not the way the world always works. However, an underlying problem might be the perceived value you got from this vs. Average Joe off the street who doesn't know how to throw a proper hook. The uknowing Average Joe might think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread.

    And once you get into the aspect of perceived value, since a DVD is a tangible thing (vs. actually going to a school and learning), you have to determine who the target market is for said DVDs. If these DVDs are intended for Average Joe with little to no experience, then of course they're going to be watered down and subpar.

    Now you mention claims that went unfulfilled; what kind of claims are we talking about here? This is where the meat of arguement might have some substance.
  2. Jim_Jude is offline
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    Shime Waza Test Dummy

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    Posted On:
    6/20/2007 9:32pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: StrikeyGrappling & WW2-fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by zadar95
    Jim your taking this quite PERSONALLY and you must have some obsession with Nuts considering the amount youve been talking about them:) If you actually look at the DvDs (Carl Cestaris DvDs)you will see on the covers it says Core Combat Training oh but wait a minite seeing as you you know so much about what Core training is you should know That .Core is a term used in all Fairburn based systems. If you think strictly choping away at a opponet is gonna win the fight you obviously havent had a real fight in your life against anybody who knows what there doing but hey good luck again to you! As far as the bad blood goes in the 10 years I have been there (at Wolfes)I have never heard of any bad blood, but Damn if you think that is good training on the DvD you have seriously never seen good training, spend some money and come on down to Wolfes and be schooled a whole lot. Seriously though why cant we all get along!!!!:)

    You come onto a public forum, talk all kinds of unsubstantiated crap about Carl Cestari and his instructors and then you want to "get along"? You just don't know what you're talking about. Look at this: http://www.gutterfighting.org/cestari.html

    There's alot more to Cestari's teachings than "strictly choping away at a opponet."

    If indeed you've been doing MAs/RBSD/Combatives/whatever for 10 years, then some of Cestari's basic DVDs are not going to satisfy you. Get over it.

    Or... you're just a hater. Which is what I suspect.

    Cestari's stuff is good, very good. You just, for whatever reason, don't like them. That's okay, but when you come into a forum like this, and immediately start slamming established guys like Cestari & Ross, how can you expect to be accepted with open arms?

    I don't agree with you. Others don't agree with you, & I have yet to see anyone post that does agree with you. So, maybe the problem is you :icon_conf
  3. PPlate is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/20/2007 10:50pm


     Style: Muay Thai, Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    For what it's worth, Cestari is also highly ranked in Judo and karate (not sure what kind), and also has a tape out called bare knuckle boxing. I don't doubt his ability to scrap.
  4. Sam Browning is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/20/2007 11:52pm

    hall of famestaff
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hi Jim.

    1) how is Damian Ross "established"?

    2) Do you believe him to be Cestati's top student and if so why?
  5. Jim_Jude is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/21/2007 2:28am

    Join us... or die
     Style: StrikeyGrappling & WW2-fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel Browning
    Hi Jim.

    1) how is Damian Ross "established"?
    Right off the top of my head...
    He's doing vids with Carl.
    He has a dojo.
    His dojo has a website: http://www.zenshin.info/whowe.html
    He doesn't just do RBSD, he actually has dan rank in an known art (Judo), and if its indeed true, has wrestled for years up into collegate levels, which is another good sign of grappling skills & not just RBSD slap-happy crap that is so common out there.
    & it would seem that he has Carl Cestari's endorsement. That counts for something.

    2) Do you believe him to be Cestati's top student and if so why?
    Who knows? I have no idea, I don't rub elbows with them. He seems to have a teaching license from Cestari. I don't have one.

    Besides, I've seen plenty of guys claim to be top dogs in my current art all over their websites or to whoever will listen, while my instructor keeps his mouth shut & yet was in practically every video made or magazine article ever published representing the art.

    It seems that in martial arts the squeekiest wheel gets the grease, but in the world of Martial Art Videos, grease equals revenue... :happy9:
  6. zadar95 is offline

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    6/21/2007 4:58am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Defendo(Wolfe Brothers

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Jim_Jude. First off Im not a hater, I love the Martial Arts always have!! Second when I get DvDs by someone as established as Carl Cestari I expect something better than average, which was not the case. I thought the DvDs were less than satisfactory!! If you think there great well than thats your opinion my opinion is they were a total let down. I have only had 10 or 11 years experience in RBSD with the Wolfe brothers before that Tae Kwon Do and I wrestled through out Highschool. I think I can state my opinion with confidence wen I say the DvDs were less than average. To say the stuff is really good makes me question what you have seen or done in the martial arts. Have you been in a real fight?? What exactly have you studied??? As a bartender and doorman Ive had plenty of fights and seen to many to count, I have been robbed at gun point had a knife pulled on me(only a jackknife I must admit) and have been jumped by 3 people more than once breaking up fights and my training saved me in all those situations. The only reason I slam the DvDs is they dont live up to the hype not even close!! As far as Damian Ross goes where does he get off calling himself the WORLDS MOST RESPECTED CLOSE QUARTER COMBAT instructor, give me break, thats what upsets me the dishonesty about it. If I seem like a hater Im not, there is plenty of people I like out there this wasnt one of them!!!
  7. Cdnronin is offline

    Ghost of Kawaishi

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    Posted On:
    6/21/2007 6:15am


     Style: judo, parenting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel Browning
    Hi Jim.

    1) how is Damian Ross "established"?

    2) Do you believe him to be Cestati's top student and if so why?
    Carl and Damien are no longer associated. Damien , however does have the rights to the videos and DVDs that Carl produced.
  8. Askari is offline

    The Bottom Brick

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    Posted On:
    6/21/2007 6:29am


     Style: BJJ, Ju-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by zadar95
    Jim_Jude. First off Im not a hater, I love the Martial Arts always have!! Second when I get DvDs by someone as established as Carl Cestari
    This is completely opposite to your paid basher work up until this point.

    When your earlier actions are not consistant with your later claims, the claims can be ignored.

    Especially coming from someone who trains the "holy grail of MA" and has used it a dozen times in bar fights.

    For the record, I have some of Carl C's tapes and think they are very good value. Everything in them is functional.

    Oh and Zadar, could you answer the earlier question:

    "How does your style of Defendo relate to Fairbairn?" I'd even accept him training with Underwood.

    Since I have never seen a verifiable link, We could do a whole thread on why your instructors choice of the name Defendo is Bullshido - perhaps that should have been your thread title.
    "Sifu, I"m niether - I'm a fire dragon so don't **** with me!"
  9. Cdnronin is offline

    Ghost of Kawaishi

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    Posted On:
    6/21/2007 7:21am


     Style: judo, parenting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Askari
    This is completely opposite to your paid basher work up until this point.

    When your earlier actions are not consistant with your later claims, the claims can be ignored.

    Especially coming from someone who trains the "holy grail of MA" and has used it a dozen times in bar fights.

    For the record, I have some of Carl C's tapes and think they are very good value. Everything in them is functional.

    Oh and Zadar, could you answer the earlier question:

    "How does your style of Defendo relate to Fairbairn?" I'd even accept him training with Underwood.

    Since I have never seen a verifiable link, We could do a whole thread on why your instructors choice of the name Defendo is Bullshido - perhaps that should have been your thread title.
    Dammit, Askari, I was getting to the lack of lineage thing! from what I've seen. Wolfe's stuff is a good system, but has no connection to any of Fairbairn's work. The choice of name is inconsistent with Fairbairn, the inconsistencies between what Wolfe teaches vs any historical references to Fairbairn from his own books(published between 1915 and 1943), the manuals of his co-instructors and students(Sykes and Applegate), the available films of Fairbairn.

    As Wolfe has been highly critical of Underwood in the past, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a connection there.
  10. Cdnronin is offline

    Ghost of Kawaishi

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    Posted On:
    6/21/2007 7:25am


     Style: judo, parenting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by zadar95
    As far as Damian Ross goes where does he get off calling himself the WORLDS MOST RESPECTED CLOSE QUARTER COMBAT instructor, give me break, thats what upsets me the dishonesty about it. If I seem like a hater Im not, there is plenty of people I like out there this wasnt one of them!!!

    I'm not saying Damien is the worlds most respected close combat instructor, but seeing as your head instructor claims direct lineage to Fairbairn and Camp X, despite being able to provide any evidence, as well as claiming he has the #1 ranked self defense system in the world, are you really in a position to be complaining about the use of over the top hyperbole being used in martial arts advertising?
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