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  1. elipson is offline
    elipson's Avatar

    Ad Hominem rocks.

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    Posted On:
    6/20/2007 7:02pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, mma

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    you might be a 1-5 Capoeria fighter, but that 1 knockout with the 540 handstand kick is going to be on the highlight reels for generations.
    And get you laid a hell of a lot more than submissions ever will!
  2. doninha is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/20/2007 10:09pm


     Style: Capoeira, MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm not a part of Muzenza myself, so I can't be completely sure about the DVD, but most "full contact" capoeira tournaments are pretty similar. The players must maintain a constant ginga (the dancing) during the duration of the fight. There is something called "balanço," which you can see when they seems to sway from side to side without moving their feet; that's as close as they can get to squaring off. I wish the clips were longer so you could get the full flavor of the game...

    I wish I could see the knockout with an Au Batido (the handstand kick from the last page). I've seen it used quite nicely in the roda, but never in a real fight. Find a clip and put it up!

    Doninha
  3. WingChun Lawyer is offline
    WingChun Lawyer's Avatar

    Modesty forbids more.

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    Posted On:
    6/21/2007 8:22am

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai, BJJ newbie.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by doninha
    First, this IS a full contact capoeira tournament. I have the DVD and I know plenty of students in their group who have competed in similar. The rules are simple... Takedowns, punching and kicks are all allowed, but they have to be recognized capoeira techniques. No groundfighting, no submissions. Points are given for takedowns and connected strikes. All techniques must be performed from the ginga, otherwise it isn't capoeira anymore and the player is disqualified. That is kinda the defining characteristic of capoeira, BTW.
    Thank you very much for helping us here, Doninha.

    As far as I am concerned, when people get KOed it is indeed full contact; the rules may make the fight weird or impractical under different rulesets, but a KO is a KO.

    Personally, I have a weak spot for Capoeira, even though I would never do it (I am stiff, uncoordinated, and have all the flexibility of a block of concrete); but are you sure it was "just a game" in the time of the old "maltas", and not training of some kind?
    That civilisation may not sink,
    Its great battle lost,
    Quiet the dog, tether the pony
    To a distant post;
    Our master Caesar is in the tent
    Where the maps are spread,
    His eyes fixed upon nothing,
    A hand under his head.


    - W.B. Yeats
  4. TalkShowOnMute is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/21/2007 11:36am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    it appears to be the same as "regular" Capoeira, it's just that you make them stand closer together..instead of 10 ft seperation is is like 5.
  5. Bizzaro Root is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/21/2007 12:26pm


     Style: Gracie Barra Jiu Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    look like your standard rhoda. they use the standard trading of kicks and spins to conpliment the look of Capoeira . im not sure but it look pretty weak even on the stuff where contact is made. it almost resembles tkd competetion but with Capoeira moves
    Eduardo "Why'd you stop."

    Me "I was kicked in the head by the guys sparring next to me."

    Eduardo "Ino what happened but i didnt say you could stop."

    Me "Um.. I guess I keep going."

    Eduardo "You dont stop until i say stop, you dont get tired until i say your tired, keep going."


    Originally posted by Ralek
    My cousin gave me some tapes of him doing tkd. I learned from those tapes. When I beat up an Akido instructor, and made him take rest breaks, I used TKD. I learned Bjj from watching ufc and pride and then I copied them and wrestled my cousin for practice. I choked him out and he tapped.
  6. doninha is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/21/2007 12:32pm


     Style: Capoeira, MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Don't get me wrong... The old time rodas were VERY dangerous (depending on where you were and which stories you want to believe), and I'm sure that the training in the rodas was pretty easily applicable to certain situations outside of the roda. But I've always gotten the impression that it was more mental training than anything else. Learning how to deceive your opponent rather than just beating them... it was the game of the woefully outnumbered and outgunned, so they learned how to outfox their opponents, like was mentioned earlier.

    Of course, there are many current instructors and Mestres that would argue my opinion, but I'm basing it off of comments made by the "Velha Guarda" (Old Guard) of capoeira mestres at a conference held in the late eighties...

    At the time, the Senzala group had the most popular style of capoeira in all of Brazil. They were the developers of the more modern, acrobatic style seen today, which pissed off many of the old school capoeiristas. The conference was held as an attempt to smooth things over among the various groups and styles present at the time.

    The "Velha Guarda," which consisted of the oldest and most respected Mestres in Brazil who were present during the "malta" (undergroud) period of capoeira's development, gave many of the lectures during the conferece. One question asked was, "What is your impression of the new capoeira that is becoming more popular?" (paraphrasing) They pretty much all agreed on two points:

    1. The development of the Senzala style and training methodology DRAMATICALLY improved the efficacy and strength of the movements. They all agreed that they had never before seen such powerful kicks and techniques practiced in the roda before. This included the addition of takedowns, a more structured approach to teaching and the direct "fighting" aspects of the game.

    2. But, because of this, the new players had lost the "malandragem," the *almost* supernatural ability to deceive their opponents that the older Mestres held in the highest regard, which in my opinion is the greatest tool you can learn from capoeira. (They weren't ninja, but some of the old stories would lead you to believe that they were cut from the same cloth)

    This is generally though to be the biggest split in capoeira styles today. Most modern groups are very athletic and graceful, but lack trickery. Most Anolgeiros are extremely loose, flexible and highly deceptive, but not nearly as "hard" (there are some awesome exceptions to that rule, though).

    That being said, the training methodology of modern capoeira IS NOT based on fighting someone on the street or in competition. It is approached from a cultural and sporting aspect, for the sake of playing well in the roda whether it is full contact or not. There are those that cross train and insert BJJ and other arts into their capoeira to make it more effective, but it all comes back to the training method > style point. The capoeiristas that do well in fights use MMA style techniques, spiced up with some capoeira movements and I hope a good dose of capoeira mentality and trickery. We've all seen what happens when a capoeirista tries to make a real fight work like a roda.

    They get their asses kicked.

    It's a shame too, because one of the greatest things that I ever learned from capoeira was that if you want to survive, BE SMART AND ADAPT YOURSELF TO THE SITUATION. Not the other way around. Apparently many of my fellow capoeiristas never learned that lesson.

    Doninha

    PS - The game that is seen most often in videos are "exhibition" type games that involve plenty of room to show off without much fighting. Much more interesting to watch for the general public than the inside game which isn't so flashy. Most capoeiristas can do both.
  7. samnoth is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/21/2007 12:35pm

    supporting member
     Style: bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by elipson
    And get you laid a hell of a lot more than submissions ever will!
    Not sure about that, every time I lay an RNC on my wife, I get laid. Good thing I'm very quick.
  8. elipson is offline
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    Ad Hominem rocks.

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    Posted On:
    6/21/2007 6:51pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, mma

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    it appears to be the same as "regular" Capoeira, it's just that you make them stand closer together..instead of 10 ft seperation is is like 5.
    Cap has two distinct styles. One style is the acrobatic 10 ft style, the other is much closer.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by elipson
    And get you laid a hell of a lot more than submissions ever will!


    Not sure about that, every time I lay an RNC on my wife, I get laid. Good thing I'm very quick.
    A disturbingly poor attempt at humor.
  9. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/21/2007 6:58pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WingChun Lawyer
    Thank you very much for helping us here, Doninha.

    As far as I am concerned, when people get KOed it is indeed full contact; the rules may make the fight weird or impractical under different rulesets, but a KO is a KO.
    It is not full contact. I'm glad you admit your bias. Yes, A KO is A KO it doesn't equal full contact.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDUDS7L1jQs


    Still point fighting.
  10. Koiyuki is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/21/2007 7:37pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Very enlightening look at how effective Capoeira can be. As it has been said, it is as much about scrambling the opponents train of thought, as it is about scrambling their brains with a well placed Au Batido. To hold your own with any style, you must be well rounded and learn to change to what's happening around you, and this holds true for Capoeira. In my eyes, when you start out, you gotta decide whether to use your moves to captivate the masses, or to show them, "Touch me and I'll rearrange your face"

    That said, though, I would like to see someone mix Capoeira with Bajiquan.
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